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#2096086 - 06/05/13 10:16 AM Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit  
Joined: Aug 2011
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hkginger Offline
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hkginger  Offline
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Our 6-month old Kawai K6 piano has been having BUZZ/ZEE sound on many keys and tech came yesterday for an hour. He took out many parts of the piano and tighten all the screws, nothing really loose. He did something to the "felt" a bit?! Keys sound good at this point. At the end he put the front piece and slow fall board (with music rack), all the BUZZ/ZEE sound came back. We notice that when music rack flip up, those sounds are more obvious than the music rack flip up. Today, those sounds come out from other keys as well. My pianist is not happy. Also our fall board is up a bit more on one side than the other when CLOSED since 1 month after we received the piano.This tech/tuner never able to fix it. Also there is strong echo sound around the piano and we learn to ignore it for the past 3 months.

Piano was tuned one month ago. Is this sympathetic vibration? The front casters are kind of loose and I have already put some hard paper underneath. The piano is placed in a big family room. What else should I do.... I know I need to call the dealer and insist another tech. But before that, anything else I should so? Should I try putting a rug under the piano? Get rid of all furniture to see if the noise disappear? I am LOST..... We really want the BUZZ to go away.

Please kindly advise.

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#2096104 - 06/05/13 10:41 AM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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bkw58 Offline

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bkw58  Offline

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Joined: Mar 2009
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Conway, AR USA
Sometimes sympathetic vibration is not coming from the piano at all - even though it seems to be. Metronomes are common offenders. Loose glass in picture frames, French doors and cabinets in the room are often culprits as well. To make a determination, have someone walk through the room, touching glass in frames - and anything similar that could be buzzing - while you continuously play the note(s) that seems to produce the buzz.

Last edited by bkw58; 06/05/13 10:46 AM. Reason: clarity

Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
#2096105 - 06/05/13 10:42 AM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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RonTuner Offline
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From the sounds of your description, the buzz only appears when the fallboard and/or music rack is in place? That sounds like the place to start investigating...

#2096135 - 06/05/13 11:23 AM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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bkw58 Offline

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bkw58  Offline

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Conway, AR USA
"Also our fall board is up a bit more on one side than the other when CLOSED since 1 month after we received the piano"

I must have missed this. What you describe indicates an improper fit. If the fallboard pins are not seated properly in the hinges, this could easily be the problem.


Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
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#2096262 - 06/05/13 02:46 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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Zeno Wood Offline
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I once fixed a buzz on that same model piano and it could be the same thing. One quick possible fix would be to tighten the locking cams on the inside of the panel, at each top corner of the panel. The idea being that when the cams are in their locked position, the panel would be pulled a little tighter into position. That didn't work for me, so I removed the panel and glued felt strips on the side edges where it contacts the sides of the piano. The felt was thick enough that it filled the gap but not so thick that the panel wouldn't fit.


Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College
#2096342 - 06/05/13 04:09 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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Tunewerk Offline
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Buzzes usually come from window panes, other furniture in the room, paper clips and detritus wedged in the right location, air supply and return ducts, etc.

It takes time and money to find these sources in the room. Seldom is it the actual piano.

If it is in your piano, it will probably be (in descending order):

- loose continuous hinge screws in the music desk or lid
- springs in the action, vibrating against parts or glue
- slightly loose case hardware (with washers)
- damper wires or string issues

Casters are not the problem.


www.tunewerk.com

Unity of tone through applied research.
#2096516 - 06/05/13 09:24 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: Tunewerk]  
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Steven Bolstridge Offline
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lock mechanism can sometimes buzz right at the top


piano tuner/technician
#2096602 - 06/05/13 11:06 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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Gary Fowler Offline
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Buzzing can be a pain in the butt to find the cause. If I can't find the obvious sorce(something laying on the sounboard, a piano lamp on top of the piano etc, than it's just a process of elimination. Worst case, Move the piano into a different room. Does it still buzz there? if so it's likely coming from inside the piano somewhere


Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...
#2096640 - 06/06/13 12:00 AM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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monads Offline
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CA
Tunewerk layed out some good places to start. I originally had some buzzing or more like vibrations from the fallboard when playing my K8 but adjusting the little rubber bumper it rests upon corrected it.

I recently noticed one key with a noisy spring! My tech is going to fix next time he visits.


My music_website at http://www.OdysseyofaG.com
#2097807 - 06/07/13 11:50 AM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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hkginger Offline
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To Bkw58, monads, Gary Fowler, Steven Bolsridge, Tunewerk, Zeno Wood, Rod Tuner-Thank you for all your feedback.
My pianist see obvious vibration from the music rack and fallboard. Buzz/tee sound appears on quite many keys, but a bit less when music rack is down. The piano sounds "good" before the tech put back the fallboard. I will do some changes in the environment before I call the dealer for another technicians to investigate the fallboard and music rack.

Thanks. Barb



#2097935 - 06/07/13 02:48 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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BenP Offline
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South Jersey
Or, like the persistent buzz I was puzzling over the other day that only happened on a C6 . . . the hinge pins for the piano lid. It seriously can be anything, and the "direction" of the sound can be very misleading sometimes as well.

I'll also second what Steven said above: some of those Kawai uprights can have very pesky buzzes that come out of the lock mechanism at the front of the keybed/fallboard.


Ben Patterson, RPT
South Jersey Piano Service, LLC
www.sjpianoservice.com
#2097938 - 06/07/13 02:57 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: BenP]  
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hkginger Offline
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thank you, BenP.

#2100504 - 06/10/13 05:38 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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Goof Offline
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No body has suggested the "Press Test".
You play the buzzy note, hold it down or keep repeating and at the same time press down on any part which seems closest to the sound, This can even include non speaking lengths of the strings.
Never fails for me.

#2100555 - 06/10/13 06:57 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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Terry Benge Offline
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I had a KG-2D with a keyslip buzz. There is a metal strip installed with small screws. When i removed it the buzz stopped so I realized I had found the problem. The funny thing is, the buzz did not sound like it was coming from there, more from the music desk area. Don't know if your Kawai has that but you can check.


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Steinway Studio
Yamaha CP300
#2100583 - 06/10/13 07:50 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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Jbyron Offline
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A buzz like that could be caused by loose soundboard buttons. Did your technician pull the piano away from the wall and tighten these up?


Tuner-Technician


#2100587 - 06/10/13 07:53 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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KawaiDon Offline
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These kinds of buzzes can be very annoying, but they are understandable (since the piano is a vibrating device) and they can be eliminated. It takes a technician with experience and sometimes a little persistence.

The most common cause is in the long hinges of the cabinet, and by pressing on the various parts of the piano you can usually find out which one. The hinge can be treated so that the noise doesn't happen any more.

If you live in the US or Canada you should contact Kawai America and ask for assistance. Be sure to have the serial number when you call. 800-421-2177, press 1 for service.

If you live in another part of the world, your dealer is your best resource for help. Let them know the first tuner was unsuccessful, and that this problem needs to be taken care of.

The tuner can also contact me if he needs guidance. Send me a private message if you want to try that.

As others have said, other things in the room can cause the noise and it can REALLY sound like it is in the piano. But if it stops when case parts are removed that sort of indicates it is in the piano.

Let us know what it turns out to be!


Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America
#2100719 - 06/11/13 12:58 AM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: bkw58]  
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Maximillyan Offline
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KZ
Originally Posted by bkw58
French doors

Buzz glass it's French doors?

#2105718 - 06/21/13 11:59 AM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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hkginger Offline
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Thank you all for your feedback. Another tech comes today, it is the screws at the back of the front panel.
Now my pianist enjoys a lot more...

#2105822 - 06/21/13 03:22 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
Joined: Mar 2009
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bkw58 Offline

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bkw58  Offline

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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,045
Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted by hkginger
Thank you all for your feedback. Another tech comes today, it is the screws at the back of the front panel.
Now my pianist enjoys a lot more...



thumb


Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
#2105869 - 06/21/13 04:52 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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Zeno Wood Offline
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Glad to hear it's solved. Hope you get a lot of enjoyment out of your new piano.


Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College
#2105955 - 06/21/13 08:29 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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Bob Online content
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Bob  Online Content
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I had a call back today for a buzz on a nice Kawai grand that I tuned last week. Nothing buzzed when I arrived, but after a few minutes the buzz appeared at middle "C". The client played the note while I checked the room - The light fixture in the ceiling over the piano was the culprit.

Areas in Kawai that often buzz include locks on the stretcher - hinge screws - lid hinge pins - hinge pin screws - leg ferrules, and agraffe terminations (move the string side to side with a bit of force to grind down the agraffe hole on those).

Don, any cure for the locks? - it's the female receptacle bit. A client with an RX had a Q-tip shoved in the lock to stop the buzz. He had already glued all the hinge screws in place till I showed him it was the lock.

#2105995 - 06/21/13 10:30 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: Bob]  
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Jbyron Offline
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Good one Bob! Agraffe terminations. I had a Story & Clark the other day with that very same issue. I like your fix for that.


Tuner-Technician


#2106013 - 06/21/13 11:41 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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Bob Online content
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Yea, agraffe buzzes in Dongbei happen as well. How did you fix the Story and Clark?

#2107229 - 06/24/13 02:13 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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hkginger Offline
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Thank you all...

#2107271 - 06/24/13 03:08 PM Re: Kawai piano BUZZ sound still not resolved after tech visit [Re: hkginger]  
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hkginger Offline
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Today my pianist hears a little faint buzz on very few keys. I will let it go for now... Piano still sounds much better than one month ago. I wonder if it is the hot weather in NJ. Tech is trying to sell me Dampp Chaser ...


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