Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum utter newbie contemplating 1930s kimball 'mechanics special'

If you are moving it yourself you may want to get some type of insurance. We were invited to a home here in Nashville where someone and some " buddies" went to move a grand piano for the 1st time. The result was 14 grand worth of floor damage, piano still at residence wedged in hallway sheetrock and the homeowners have to walk around the house to get to the bedrooms via a patio entrance... Priceless !

It was really almost as good as the Estonia concert grand we saw last year on the interstate tied into the trailer with kite string.. well before it exited through the nose of the trailer

Mmm. Where would I go for insurance? It would be a shame if I ruined it in transit, but my piano has no value. That's one aspect that makes it a good project piano; grandma's steinway can be done later.
Their floor, on the other hand, is not without value.

I was about to ask how they caused 14k in damage, but if it was a nice wood or marble floor, + the wall... yeah I can see it. wow.

That's a real shame about a (presumably of some real value) concert grand... kite string? You kid me not
?
We'll be using ratcheting tie downs, I assure you. I moved 2 ton blocks of marble, and they STILL slid, just a little, on a trailer bed with chain tie downs! Unfortunately, moving marble does not prepare me for moving a piano. I had access to a crane, and we could abuse a boulder all we wanted with prybars to get it into position. 4000# of marble and a crane does the lifting. 600# of marble is a little block at your feet that you can tumble around. 600# of piano can't just be rolled end over end!

I put an ad on craigslist.
Found someone who worked for a moving company for several years and is freelancing (so no insurance... but at least some experience, a truck, ramps, tie downs).
He relayed a story about working with a novice mover who dropped an upright on him while on some stairs (novice at top, he was holding the bottom), and he and the upright went through the door at the bottom... There's a reason insurance exists.
He was pleased to hear that there will be no stairs involved.
He asked about the case material, and was glad that it wasn't heavy and weak pressboard. I'm glad he's asking some of the right questions (I think)
He was a little surprised when I told him a grand piano would likely be 600#-- guess he only moved uprights.

Without becoming a curmudgeon, I like to be constantly in doubt (definition of a cynic...?), so yes, I'll be watching some youtube videos, probably make that flat board that I see them using, stock up on some blankets, etc. Maybe ask a question or two here if any occur to me, but I'm thinking youtube will cover the bases.

I doubt that any sensible insurance company would insure you for this, as you are not a professional and even if you were, I am not aware of "one time" insurance.

I know. It was an unrealistic suggestion, and I wasn't planning to contact an insurance company to arrange something between now and friday (as you say)-- the best I can do, is think out the move and be careful so that no such mess arises. Sounded like Nash Piano was privy to a very serious disaster on the part of another novice mover and I appreciate the warning not to be cavalier about it! I was being polite in considering insurance component.

or hire a pro for the insurance they carry.

The piano is going 100 miles though-- and I'm afraid of what it might cost. Probably too much. It will eat right into my budget for new strings.
Right now, I'm right at $200-$250 all expenses for the move (gas, uhaul trailer, building a moving board etc., plus hiring a pair of ex-pro movers and their pickup and ramps) I don't think I'll do better, unless, pro piano movers aren't quite as expensive as I'm imagining?
I googled "move piano" and saw that people spent $200 to move their piano down the street, $500 for longer distances.


But the same might be said of anything... I could take a taxi to school every day to save the risk that I cause an accident. When I was into marble carving, maybe I could have hired professional riggers. But, I don't crash driving to school each day, and even my marble-moving escapades went off without a hitch.

Paying for someone else to take every risk for me is expensive, too-- and as a life philosophy would leave one frozen in fear not doing anything the least bit adventurous.
I'll just be safe and sensible about it.

You should call a mover and get a quote. If you pay $250 for the move, and $50,000 in damages if you screw up, will you have saved any money?

Not a good sign that the guy was startled by the weight of a grand piano. If he has never moved a grand before, the legs might confuse him: they are detached from the piano and are installed again at the new site. As a tech or an amateur, I would not want to get underneath a grand moved by someone unfamiliar with the mechanics of the move. Really, consider looking for someone with experience, for your own safety.

Alright, it cost a little more (or a little less, from perspective), but I've got a scheme that works.

The reason he's giving it away is that his daughter is moving back in with him, and has a lower-quality but higher-functioning grand in tote.
There's not room in one living room for two grands, so he's getting rid of it on very short notice.

Turns out the movers will be bringing her piano into the house tomorrow morning at 9:30am.

So I just paid $250 to have a proper trailer hitch installed and wired onto my vehicle at uhaul today, and tomorrow will be renting a $25 trailer and driving it up to waterloo iowa, where I'll pay them, the professional movers who will already be at the house, $100 to carry his piano out of the house and onto my rented trailer.

I found a very helpful older piano tuner in iowa city who has lent me the use of his skid board and ratchet straps and dolly, so the piano can simply stay on that.
I'll have to buy a sheet of plywood at lowes to use as a ramp/ base to get across the short lawn in iowa city ($30),

And then the same very helpful man will graciously supervise myself and my friends in iowa city, as we wrestle it into the home, to move it properly.
I'll also be paying attention to the pro movers in the morning and how they do it, too, to learn in preparation for unloading tomorrow afternoon

Gas will be $40.

So it will still cost $195 + the hitch install! I'm a bit disappointed. Piano moving is expensive, even after I try and cut corners to save some money! Guess that's just life Shoulda gone electronic (only partially kidding)

I can't count the hitch install: I'll be getting additional value out of that.
Hiring the freelance mover was basically the same price, and didn't involve buying a hitch.

But on the other hand,
I've got pros moving it out of the house, not me and some dude. Although, I do still have me and some dudes, with pro supervision now, moving back into my own house back in iowa city.
I do get a hitch install out of this.
And it gets done tomorrow morning. When the weather is supposed to be beautiful. The freelance mover was only available friday night after his work; which won't be as fun, walking across the lawn in the dark.

Sounds like you are doing things very conscientiously, which will absolutely pay off in the end. Take your time, and do things carefully. It's always better to spend an hour planning and two minutes working, then to go straight to work and have five hours (or $5,000) of cleanup and repair.

Yes, I've learned that the hard way.

< It's always better to spend an hour planning and two minutes working, then to go straight to work and have five hours (or $5,000) of cleanup and repair.>

Very true! I almost crashed a recent piano I moved. It was heavier than expected and the ramp we built from the raised porch to the pickup truck was marginal. We almost lost the piano off the side of the ramp between the raised porch and the truck. The piano would have been destroyed and someone could have been seriously injured. Never again will I do such a marginal move.

Moved it in successfully!
Everything was a little more than expected. Gas was a little more (towing a trailers), had to buy an additional $25 ratchet strap, $8 for trailer insurance, and $50 was the (very reasonable) fee on the iowa city end-- and bought supper for my friends who helped move it in.
Not complaining, just, it added up so fast. Even towing it myself, but with professional help on one end and semiprofessional help on the other, the move cost $300 to go 100miles. $150 hired labor, $50 gas, $85 trailer/strap/plywood, $15 food to bribe friends' help. Next time I'll feel much more comfortable doing it myself (with just friends) and save the marginal $150, but it was very good for this first time. This was also not the heaviest piano possible, either; which might be part of it. A 9' grand, would be another story...

It also took most of the day-- I drove back much more slowly, just to be on the safe side. Definitely took more than 1/2hr, all told, to load the piano. Etc.
But all that is OK. It's done, and it worked. The only slight insecurities, were when it wobbled coming down the trailer ramp, and when my makeshift ramp going up the porch steps sagged more than I was fully comfortable with. 2 layers of 3/4" ply next time, or 1x1" ribbing underneath to reinforce

Now about the piano!

I found one John Bixler through PTG, and he was the one who lent me the moving board to take with me, and very kindly helped direct me and my friends in our assembly back home.
He also helped look over it to give an initial prognosis.

No way was the piano in tune, but he said that, remarkably, the piano was in pitch, using an A 440 tuning fork he brought with him. The gist of it was that it wasn't actually at all flat. For something that hadn't been tuned in actual decades, that is a very good start. I'm not sure how it could be not flat, but at once also not in tune either...I'll want to learn more music theory and maybe then I'll understand what that means precisely.

It had maintained pitch, and looking underneath with a flashlight, no checks or splits in the pinblock. I realize that doesn't cover cross section, but that's still a good mark in its favor.

No check marks on any of the bridges.

No splits in soundboard (not that would have been the worst problem-- pinboard or bridges would have been worse).

Hammers look OK, still serviceable. None broken or misaligned laterally. Some hammers rest at different heights, one fails to come down.

Action is sticky (see above). Some adjustments will have to be made.

Keys look great, and are real ivory. Case is mahogany, not walnut.
Serial number is 417355. I found that 416xxx is 1936 and 420xxx is 1937, so 417 is 1936.5 ...? Would be interested in confirming the manufacture date. It is Kimball Chicago if that means anything (nothing I'm sure).

Case is in good shape-- two spots need refinishing. Someone was clearly using part of the piano as a coaster for their drinks. Almost certainly is french polish?


Only a handful of treble strings broke, mostly all the way at the top. Mostly, they look OK.

The entire bass section needs to be restrung, however. 1/3 are snapped (clipped by someone?), the other 2/3 are rusty enough for concern. For whatever reason, while every pin has surface rust, and where the plate's paint peeled there are rust spots, it's really just the bass section that is very rusty. Maybe the bass section was near a drafty window. Iowa humidity got to it-- and no, it was definitely not a flood piano. Just the steel pins and strings show rust, no wood shows warping, discoloring, or loss of finish (beyond the section to the right of the music stand that was used as a coaster).



Really, I'm very pleased. I can't find the video... but there was a youtube review of the free craigslist pianos NOT to accept. And as I found out, free is still $300 to move into your home. But anyway, he had a 191x upright that had everything wrong with it. Bridges had fissures everywhere, soundboard split, pins not holding tension, 2 keys were broken off, and all the hammers needed replacing-- they were so worn, and so unevenly worn, that they would only hit 1 out of 3 strings (not level).

So that was what I was imagining and preparing for.
Some adjustments to the action, and, *only* a new set of bass strings, exceeds my expectations for what it might have required.
Oh! and it has a true sostenuto pedal.

Now, the tone is, tinny...? What you might expect being played in the background of a midwestern parlor, maybe with the static-y effect of an old film. 'bright,' 'brilliant,' 'powerful,' don't apply. Something better suited to the can-can than rachmaninoff.
Now, it is a free piano off craigslist! I'm not talking about what I expected. I expected very little-- but just because I expected little doesn't mean, if possible, that I shouldn't strive for more.
New strings where needed, a good cleaning, and a couple tunings would be a good first start of course. But is this just a kimball sounding like a kimball, or are there things I can do, maybe in the action or hammer treatment, to improve tone, to get more of a classical sound?

-Bernard

I wouldn't touch a Kimball rebuild with a ten foot pole. But if this is perhaps the paino of your dreams, than go for it!. You are underestimating the costs though. The bass strings alone are $400. the pinblock is another $400. You really only want to rebuild a QUALITY piano. But I have to say, if you are going to rebuild a Kimball, a 6'6" is a decent size. I just hope you bother taking downbearing measurements, and also make sure the soundbaord has good crown. You don't want to waste time and money on a piano with limited potential

No, I don't imagine it would be worth a professional rebuilder's time.
But the other face of it is, I am not a professional rebuilder-- should I be touching any piano that would be worthy of a professional rebuild?
No more than Celia Gimenez should have started her icon restoration career by touching up (botching up) a fine and respected fresco.

This is the right piano for me to begin on.
It can be playable if I succeed,
and it can be written off if I don't.

I wouldn't say it's the piano of my dreams.
But for the pittance of $1000, could you find anything better for me? Likely not; I've been looking for a while actually. If not this, I'd spend $1000 on an electronic keyboard.


Actually, it does not need a pin block! Which was very happy news.
I've been advised --and it make so much sense-- not to go a full rebuild route on this one. Especially, as there's no real reason to justify a rebuild. The pinblock, bridges, and soundboard are in great shape.
Restring the bass, set the action, tune it a couple times until it's stable, and enjoy.
The NEXT project can be one more step involved
and the next one after that could be a total overhaul.
Bite off what I can chew.