Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Perfect pitch may not be so 'perfect'

You may find this interesting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22871651

Quote:

People classified with perfect pitch may not actually be as in tune with the notes they hear as they think.

Played a long piece of music, a study group failed to notice when scientists turned the tones ever so slightly flat. They then misidentified in-tune sounds as being sharp.

Researchers say it demonstrates the adaptability of the mind even for those skills thought to be fixed at birth.

They have published the work in the journal Psychological Science.

Nobody is allowed to say I am not perfect , I have golden ears, no corrosion

(sometime missing the note by an exact semi tone, but stay true pitch wise - without being pretentious, only at the 440-42 level the precision is somewhat good, for the rest , note names, mostly)

I've always felt that it had more to do with pitch memory, and memory being what it is, it will be somewhat unreliable.

- Perfect pitch ... tossing a tuba into the dumpster and hitting an accordion. BDB - semipro tech

Fascinating... Thanks for sharing.

This has been established in other ways before. One exercise that Owen Jorgenson (author of books about historical temperaments and piano technician for the music department at Michigan State) used to do is to ask people in a music class to identify themselves as having "perfect pitch". Then he would start tuning a note on the piano that was about 1/2 step off. He would announce the note name and ask the perfect pitchers to raise their hands when he had gotten the string to the correct pitch for that note.

It was kind of like a bell curve. Some would raise their hands earlier than others and rarely would anyone be right on. He would try to tune a temperament by "perfect pitch" and it was always horribly way off.

Perfect pitch -- better called pitch memory -- is an interesting phenomenon and possibly useful ability , but nowhere close enough to be sufficient to tune a piano.

Very interesting. Thank you.

I have only known of one - a blind client - who could identify any of the 88 by hearing alone. Most people think of this as "perfect pitch." It is really relative pitch. She could not identify A440 as opposed to A439 or 441 without aid of a fork or ETD. When someone comes along who can, for me that will be perfect pitch.

Having "Perfect Pitch" is something that has been referenced by musicians for well over two centuries. Pitch standards only became more uniform in the last century. Thus the evidence that the "Perfect" part is somewhat flexible has been well established.

I have only known one person who has ever had "perfect pitch". She was a blind, autistic teenage girl that I was contracted by the state to teach piano tuning to. She happened to be a high functioning autistic, and they needed to find a vocation(job skill) for her. They told me, this girl has perfect pitch, and I was skeptical. The first time I met with her, I asked her to take the tuning hammer and set A-49 to where her ears thought it belonged. She fiddled around for about 2 or 3 seconds with the pin, and said, "I have it". I checked the note and it was %100 dead on the money!

I pity people who have something approaching perfect pitch. With my relative pitch, I find it excruciating enough to listen to guitar players etc play (enthusiastically) on out of tune instruments. Same for other instruments of course.
Anyone with (real) perfect pitch would almost never come across music that they could listen to and enjoy.

It's almost annoying having new customers often asking me if I have "perfect pitch". In a way, I don't want to burst their bubble(since they probably think that if anyone should have perfect pitch, it is the piano tuner). But I am always honest and tell them I don't have "the gift". But more importantly, it's TOTALLY unecessary to have perfect pitch in order to tune a piano. More important is good hearing and great ear training!

It's almost annoying having new customers often asking me if I have "perfect pitch". In a way, I don't want to burst their bubble(since they probably think that if anyone should have perfect pitch, it is the piano tuner). But I am always honest and tell them I don't have "the gift". But more importantly, it's TOTALLY unecessary to have perfect pitch in order to tune a piano. More important is good hearing and great ear training!

You can learn how to stop listening pitches but it can be terrible in some extreme cases indeed.

Does not cause problems with microcontonal music so it is more a reference and memory question probably, but some can get that sort of imprint and other no or not as early.
A tuner also recognise pitch different from what he is used to, also.

This is where I am in this.

There have been so many times someone has tried to prove to me they have perfect pitch by using a piano as a reference.

I am not exactly sure why people still refer to "perfect pitch" as a gift. There are several researchers on the subject who are convinced we are actually all born with it but around 5 years of age we learn to unlearn it. When we begin to structure things like the alphabet and numerology/math, this structuring interferes with the very different process that perfect pitch requires.

More recent developments in Japan in the past few years indicate that several schools are teaching very young children under the age of 5 to become aware of their inherant abilities on perfect pitch and refine it to a degree where the structured learning that follows later does not interfere with it. They have a very high success rate and it is getting quite popular for parents to enroll their children in the programs.

[quote=bkw58]Very interesting. Thank you.

I have only known of one - a blind client - who could identify any of the 88 by hearing alone. Most people think of this as "perfect pitch." It is really relative pitch. She could not identify A440 as opposed to A439 or 441 without aid of a fork or ETD. When someone comes along who can, for me that will be perfect pitch. [/quote

There are some interesting and rare abilities out there. I know an autistic piano technician who can "scratch" a bass string and tell you all the partials and their inharmonicity.

The definition is not so perfect, but singing A 440 makes it. Then all other notes are in memory. What is strange is that I can miss a note name by half a steep.

But I could tune all notes in an octave at probable 10-20 cts near

You were contracted by the state to teach her.... And the rest of the story?

Fascinating. Some really gifted folks out there.

Jurgen, does this mean that you have problems listening to music at "baroque" pitch?

I'm not sure about Jurgen, but I have this exact problem. I once made the mistake of buying a recording of Bach's Brandenburg Concerti that were played at "baroque" pitch. The interpretation as such is beautiful, but the semitone pitch difference bothers me so badly that I can't listen to the recording any more.

If it's a piece of music I don't know, I just assume the key I hear is the key it's written in. But if I know the music (as I do in the case of the Brandenburgs), I balk at the "wrong" pitch, and my musical experience is completely spoiled. Mind you, I've really tried to "groove" myself into the recording and listen past the exact pitch, but to no avail. It's wrong in my ears.