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Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Enthusiast] #2102432
06/14/13 11:26 AM
06/14/13 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Enthusiast
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Thank you for he positive comments Rob - congrats on your VPC1!

I'm not overly familiar with Alicia's Keys, however it's interesting that you should mention how the virtual instrument comes alive when controlled by a high quality, realistic keyboard action.


I think he was referring to the approved touch curves in that part of the review. Is that something that could feature in other future DP's from Kawai?


Yes - the touch curve is a big part of it - using the "normal" VPC1 touch curve doesn't feel as expressive to me.

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Re: VPC1 Review [Re: gvfarns] #2102449
06/14/13 12:01 PM
06/14/13 12:01 PM
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I have also found a quick tiring effect with VintageD, (within some 2 Minutes - this was the opposite of what I experienced with Pianoteq).

I than attributed this to the fixed sound image pespective of the sampled sound, and helped a lot to let it process by a spatialieser within Reaper. A I posted previously a number of times, this is might be the most pronounced shortcoming with sampled instruments in general.

How to heal Achille's heel of sampling

Using spatialiser

Re: VPC1 Review [Re: gvfarns] #2102569
06/14/13 04:59 PM
06/14/13 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gvfarns
...To make it sound flat or lifeless you'd have to really hang out in the same range of (pretty low) velocities I would imagine. Perhaps the built-in VPC curve is set up for a lead-fingered player...


Uhm, lead fingered. Perhaps Kawai uses Robots to create the curves ; since Robotica is more common anyway in Japan ;-)

Fascinating how well the VPC plays overall don't you think ! Really like the touch. Wonder if anyone has been able to compare it directly back-to-back with the GF yet.

By the way congrats on your purchase and thanks for the VMeter link. Interesting product , but I read on some reviews that metal can interfere with the sensitivity of the V-meter and you have to use it totally flat to make it work reliably. Something to keep in mind. Might get one later on.

Last edited by JFP; 06/14/13 05:10 PM.
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2102712
06/15/13 12:14 AM
06/15/13 12:14 AM
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Discussion of the importance of velocity curves is facinating. Does anyone know a method or have a link which explains how to setup a velocity curve for a sampled piano. Is it possible to do it without specialized robotic equipment?


Kawai VPC1 | Imperfect Samples Walnut Steinway Concert Grand | Galaxy Vintage D | Pianoteq |
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Eggman] #2102715
06/15/13 12:33 AM
06/15/13 12:33 AM
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France
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Kawai VPC1/Synthogy American D/Pianoteq 5 Pro/Galaxy Vintage D

"Remember to take the time ... before time takes you"
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2102799
06/15/13 06:46 AM
06/15/13 06:46 AM
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Italy
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Arrived yesterday. Packaging and everything else were all perfect. It's a pleasure to play!

grin

This is my review. I have only some doubts on windows Editor. It looks like still a beta... velocity curves show odd spires outside own squares.


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2102809
06/15/13 07:49 AM
06/15/13 07:49 AM
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Posts: 15,121
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Qbert, congrats on your VPC1.

Regarding the VPC editor software, it's a little difficult for me to understand what you mean by 'odd spires outside own squares'. May I ask you to post a screenshot of the editor and explain what the problem is in greater detail, please?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Qbert] #2102814
06/15/13 08:10 AM
06/15/13 08:10 AM
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France
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Qbert, you are a lucky man! thumb


Kawai VPC1/Synthogy American D/Pianoteq 5 Pro/Galaxy Vintage D

"Remember to take the time ... before time takes you"
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2102859
06/15/13 11:03 AM
06/15/13 11:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 328
Italy
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@imyself
yours will arrive shortly... looking forward to read your comments!

@Kawai James
Thank you! Here is the 'odd spires':

[Linked Image]


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2102867
06/15/13 11:26 AM
06/15/13 11:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,540
US
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Your computer has a poltergeist. You need an exorcism.

Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Qbert] #2102893
06/15/13 12:41 PM
06/15/13 12:41 PM
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France
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it was at CDG Airport yesterday 22AM, but as they don't make delivery on weekend, maybe Monday... again thanks a lot, you are a nice man smile 3hearts


Kawai VPC1/Synthogy American D/Pianoteq 5 Pro/Galaxy Vintage D

"Remember to take the time ... before time takes you"
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: gvfarns] #2102895
06/15/13 12:44 PM
06/15/13 12:44 PM
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France
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Originally Posted by gvfarns
Your computer has a poltergeist. You need an exorcism.

That's a good one...You really make me laugh! ha thumb


Kawai VPC1/Synthogy American D/Pianoteq 5 Pro/Galaxy Vintage D

"Remember to take the time ... before time takes you"
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Qbert] #2102979
06/15/13 04:38 PM
06/15/13 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Qbert
I have only some doubts on windows Editor. It looks like still a beta... velocity curves show odd spires outside own squares.


Yup. Keep on having trouble with the editor as well (under Windows 7 Professional 64 bit). Quite a list of oddities, but apart from funny behavior of the editor, I also worry a bit about the working of the curves themselves, unless I misunderstand what they represent. There's an input value (velocity value coming of the sensors) and a remapped output value. Now suppose I want all velocities from 115 and above mapped to 127. TO make sure ALL velocities are mapped the way I want, I make nodes for every incoming velocity step from 115 ~ 127 and set them all to 127 output. Odd thing is I still get values in between, as if nothing happened: 116 , 119 , 123 etc. When I understand right what the curve mapping does, they should ALL be 127 and I wouldn't get to see these other values above 115. Right ?

Weird.

Re: VPC1 Review [Re: JFP] #2103008
06/15/13 06:14 PM
06/15/13 06:14 PM
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Pennsylvania
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Originally Posted by JFP
Originally Posted by Qbert
I have only some doubts on windows Editor. It looks like still a beta... velocity curves show odd spires outside own squares.


Yup. Keep on having trouble with the editor as well (under Windows 7 Professional 64 bit). Quite a list of oddities, but apart from funny behavior of the editor, I also worry a bit about the working of the curves themselves, unless I misunderstand what they represent. There's an input value (velocity value coming of the sensors) and a remapped output value. Now suppose I want all velocities from 115 and above mapped to 127. TO make sure ALL velocities are mapped the way I want, I make nodes for every incoming velocity step from 115 ~ 127 and set them all to 127 output. Odd thing is I still get values in between, as if nothing happened: 116 , 119 , 123 etc. When I understand right what the curve mapping does, they should ALL be 127 and I wouldn't get to see these other values above 115. Right ?

Weird.


You are probably right.

But, why stop there ?

If you really want to "test" things ... map everything to a single value and see how your keyboard works.

Theoretically you should get only a single volume level regardless of how you strike the key.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Qbert] #2103037
06/15/13 08:16 PM
06/15/13 08:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,121
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted by Qbert
@Kawai James
Thank you! Here is the 'odd spires':

[Linked Image]


Woah, well, that obviously shouldn't happen!
I'll have to pass this along to the VPC team. May I kindly ask you to confirm your hardware and software setup, please? Did the touch curve thumbnails always look like that (from the first time the software was run), or did something happen and suddenly the 'exorcism' occurred? You can send me a PM if you'd prefer not to go into detail in this thread.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: JFP] #2103039
06/15/13 08:20 PM
06/15/13 08:20 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted by JFP
Yup. Keep on having trouble with the editor as well (under Windows 7 Professional 64 bit). Quite a list of oddities...


Okay, please feel free to send me a message explaining the issues you are experiencing.

Originally Posted by JFP
Now suppose I want all velocities from 115 and above mapped to 127. TO make sure ALL velocities are mapped the way I want, I make nodes for every incoming velocity step from 115 ~ 127 and set them all to 127 output. Odd thing is I still get values in between, as if nothing happened: 116 , 119 , 123 etc.


I'm not sure why you would want to create such a restrictive touch curve, however in theory it should work as you describe. Again, I will pass this feedback onto the VPC team.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Kawai James] #2103156
06/16/13 02:41 AM
06/16/13 02:41 AM
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Italy
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Hi James, and thanks again for your interest.

I've a HP notebook with Windows 7 64bit.

In my understanding, the curves are read from VPC1 to the PC, and here is the trouble. Reading phase is quite slow (about 25 seconds) and I fear it take some disturbs from the USB cable, that doesn't seem shielded.

The only correct curve is "Alf", that is a self-made curve and maybe it's stored in PC memory instead of VPC1.


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2103171
06/16/13 03:23 AM
06/16/13 03:23 AM
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Perhaps if James would be so kind to explain how the interaction between editor and VPC (flash?) memory takes place, I (we) will be able to give more valuable feedback for the development team. Now it seems simply buggy with several loose ends to me.

1) What happens when you open the editor ? Will the software download the curves from your VPC and update them in the editor if it has found a curve that differs from what is already in the editor ?

2) are the curves then stored in a sort of temporary (buffer) memory on the PC, or are you directly editing the curves IN the VPC itself ? In that case it would be updating the curve(s) continuously in real time, whenever you switch a curve for a preset number or make any other change.

3) what happens when you close the editor. Is there any extra finalize step that flushes temporary buffers and stores the curves for good in the VPC ?

The reason I ask is because most often , but not always, I get curves added when I open the editor. Either a copy of the currently selected curve (though with exact same name: no 'copy' in the name) or other curves chosen at random. Sometimes I open the editor and get four extra curves, sometime just one, sometimes nothing silly happens.

I have my pressing reasons by the way to push up all values above a certain input velocity value. That's why I found out it doesn't work as expected. Other VPC owners feel free to chime in ! It could be its just my VPC acting a little funky and yours works flawlessly with the editor. Would be good to know.

Edit: Completely clean install of Windows 7 professional 64 bit with nothing else running than pianoteq and the VPC editor (latest version; auto-update is ON). Use it purely for my VPC, nothing else is in the way in terms of extra soft- or hardware. USB cable is gold plated Kawai cable that came with the VPC.

Of course these software question take nothing out of the great build quality of the VPC and excellent keys, which are a joy to play.

Last edited by JFP; 06/16/13 03:31 AM.
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2111919
07/03/13 01:02 AM
07/03/13 01:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,121
Hamamatsu, Japan
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Hello chaps,

A quick thread bump to inform those experiencing issues with the VPC Editor of a software update.

V1.2 of the VPC Editor software was uploaded a week or so ago, and should be downloaded automatically by the editor (provided the 'Automatic Updates' option is left enabled).

For more information about the updated VPC Editor, please refer to the changelog on the VPC Downloads page.

Kind regards,
James
x



Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Kawai James] #2113246
07/05/13 12:57 PM
07/05/13 12:57 PM
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Hello,

I would like to know if all 128 velocities are present on the VPC1. Has anyone tried to get all of them.?

Can you get #1. Is it consistent on the same key and consistent with all the other keys? Do the VSTi’s have a #1 or they ignore the very light velocities?

How hard one strikes the key can then be set in preferences for #1 and for #128?

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