Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Yamaha CFX Source of Parts

Hi, I rarely visit PW since I am busy with other things.

However, I am kind of curious over someone's claim about the new Yamaha CFX concert grand on YouTube.

http://youtu.be/9cHIjDNOWUs

The uploader said that the Yamaha CFXs are sourced with Bosendorfer action and soundboard. However, I don't believe that statement is true especially the soundboard and the fact that Bosendorfer gets their action from Renner. Although Bosendorfer is owned by Yamaha, I think of them as being two separate divisions under the Yamaha company... basically like two manufactures under one owner.

I really want to get my facts correct before heading into a dispute with the uploader's claim. Given that PW has many experts and maybe a few insiders, maybe you can help me get my facts straight about these the CFX.

I don't think the info in the link is accurate, based on what I have heard from Yamaha and Bosendorfer reps. Yamaha makes their own action and I believe is very proud of that. I have heard nobody say that they're using the Renner hammers, and I think Yamaha is proud to use their own stuff in their pianos.

I also find it somewhat laughable that a soundboard for a Yamaha-designed concert grand is somehow "from Bosendorfer". Now, they could source the wood from the same supplier, or specify the same grade, but I'd have a hard time envisioning a sub-line in Austria whose sole purpose would be to assemble soundboards for Yamahas being built in Japan, when the materials could simply be shipped to Hammamatsu and assembled there, and fitted to the piano.

I've played my fair share of model 280 and 290 Bosies, and tried the CFX at NAMM, and can say the sound signature between the two brands is notably different. I'd even say the 280 and 290 are a little different, while we're at it, but that's the subject of another thread (and I'd need to play a couple of new 290's before I can say definitively).

No way. Yamaha has their own soundboard and action.

The soundboard, hammers and action mechanism are completely different between Bösendorfer & Yamaha CF Series. Bösendorfer sources its tone-wood near Saltzburg, Austria and parts of Southeastern Bavaria.

I would be very surprised if the hammers have Royal George felt on them, as claimed. Royal George felt was used on entry level Korean and Chinese pianos....

But it is usually not worth arguing with people who don't understand that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Royal George hammerfelt was used on the early Yamaha C Series pianos.

Early C series pianos - let me see... that would be 40 years ago, wouldn't it? Or maybe more? Sorry, I am not a Yamaha historian.

Are you calling me ancient???



I think they use Royal George hammerfelts until the early- or mid-80s.

I judge people's age by the number of their posts to PW. You are getting up there, but are still a long way from being a shrunken, shriveled ancient geezer... I probably don't have to mention any names...

Steve is about to join the "Yikes Club!"

Niney-Nine hunerd peeaners on da wall, niney-nine keyboids...

What?

Yeah, and I'm not too far behind. But he is waaaay older than I am.

The Yamaha CFX now uses spruce from Bavaria instead of Alaska for the CFX and CX series soundboards, but they are Yamaha soundboards, not Boesendorfer. Lots of other pianos have Bavarian spruce soundboards, none of them are from Boesendorfer except for a Boesendorfer.

Yamaha always made their own action, and the CX actions are very good, and the S and CF series actions are amazing. Yamaha now utilizes German wood for their hammers, but hammers are made by Yamaha, not Renner or another German hammer maker.

Yamaha altered the designed of the CFX/CX series significantly after the aquisition of Boesendorfer, but unless you work for the Yamaha piano design division, you probably won't know whether the design change was home-grown, or technology transfer from Boesendorfer, maybe a combination of both.

There seems to be the assumption that Bösendorfer is better than Yamaha. In my experience, the best Yamaha and Bösendorfer are different, but I would not say that one is better than the other.

I take it you mean German felt on the hammers?

Yes, I was thinking wool, but typed wood.

Aren't piano hammers made of wood and covered with felt?

Lama wool makes lovely felt.

Hi again.

Thanks for all responses. I did learn something new after reading some of the replies. I actually thought Royal George Hammers were top-of-the-line hammers but it turns out that some of the entry level models used them as well.

I kind of felt suspicious over the YouTube uploader's claim given that I've watch two lengthy videos of the Yamaha's grand piano production (The C-Series and the S/CF-Series) and read through Bosendorfer's catalog about how they build their pianos. Also given the fact that these two pianos are built with different ideologies and different methods, I find it strange that Yamahas would share parts.

After thinking about it, I should leave the person who uploaded the video alone since he is probably happy with his Yamaha CFX and I'm just there to burst his pride bubble. But it's nice to get some ideas of where they source their parts (Hoping I did not expose company secrets).

I know I should not look at videos like these, but I just happen to stumble upon it on YouTube. I just enjoy watching people's demonstrations Bosendorfer pianos and I wish to own one of those pianos someday. Given that I am not as old as some of the PW members on here, I probably have years ahead to make it come true.

Rhetorical question?

While the characteristics of the wood used in the hammer core do play a part in hammer mass and tonal response, it is almost insignificant when compared to the importance of the hammer felt characteristics for tone and dynamics.