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#2100192 - 06/10/13 09:43 AM Advice please!  
Joined: Jun 2013
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Gnashey Offline
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Gnashey  Offline
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Hi everyone,

I've been looking for a digital piano for ages and been into shops etc but just don't really know what to look for. I'm wondering if there is anyone kind enough to put forward some suggestions?

I used to play up to grade 4 and so don't just want something to tinker with every now and then. I have a budget up to £700 - I want something I can integrate with computer equipment, so need USB functionality and would like some different sounds and possibly beats (not just pure digital piano). Would prefer portable but like the look of an upright style - if there was one that integrated the two that would be great.

Needs to be 88 key and touch sensitive but not too heavy as I have RSI in my hands and can't handle anything that needs a heavy touch. Looking for a really nice sound and something of good quality.

Would anyone be able to help on what I could get?

Many thanks

Gnashey

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#2100197 - 06/10/13 09:56 AM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Kawai James Offline
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How about a Casio PX-350 with the custom stand and pedal unit?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2100304 - 06/10/13 12:49 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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spanishbuddha Online content
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I concur with KJs suggestion, but since you mention RSI I would also suggest the Yamaha P105, with stand too. Whatever you do, try them first.

#2100395 - 06/10/13 02:56 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: spanishbuddha]  
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Vectistim Offline
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Reading, UK
Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
I concur with KJs suggestion, but since you mention RSI I would also suggest the Yamaha P105, with stand too. Whatever you do, try them first.


Really? I (briefly) tried a P105 (store demo model) weekend before last and I thought the action felt like hardwork. This is a gross exaggeration but it felt like the keys were moving through treacle. (OK, a very thin treacle, but it did feel to me like some sort of viscous resistance)

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#2100435 - 06/10/13 04:08 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Vectistim]  
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Temperament Offline
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+1 for Casio.

Good 2.nd generation improved 3 sensor keyboard of them.

#2101148 - 06/11/13 08:09 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
Joined: Apr 2013
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Mta88 Offline
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Mta88  Offline
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Trinidad and Tobago
I've read in another forum That the Yamaha p105 is on the lighter side of average keyweight while the casio is on the heavier side of keyweight.

Apparently keyweight can get Very Very heavy as some people prefer the Heavy keys... more dynamic control I guess.

I am like you.. My hands tire Fast due to a condition..

If I were you i'd go with the P105 as it seems to have the lightest action from what I've read (GHS)

I myself might get one..

If you are now starting back your hand muscles are probably a bit weak.. It should get easier.. Just remember to take frequent breaks and not to overdo it.

IF your RSI is acting up STOP..rest.

Moderation is the Key for RSI injuries..

Mine isn't RSI unfortunately... a bit more complicated but I manage it.

Kawai seems to have a heavier action from what I've read as well.

The higher end yamahas such as the p155(GH action) also are heavier than the P105. But are supposed to be better actions.

Are u sure it isn't the P155 you played?

Again if I were you I would probably go with the P105.

The Best thing is to go in the stores and try them out for yourself. Something I need to do again.

I've played Yamaha GH (action in the P155) but was a long time ago and I can't remember how it felt..

Temperament is right about the casio tho..

It's a tri sensor design so it would probably give you more control over the Yamaha.. But considering your unique situation with the RSI I personally would recommend the Yamaha p105..


Again all that I've said is based on all the research I've done and from what I've read.

Digital Pianos are hard to come by where i'm from. We basically only have access to roland..

I was going to special order a casio but After I've read about the heavier action I will go with the P105..

The Previous PX-x30 series actions are supposed to be lighter than the new PX-x50 series but again, from what I've read the quality wasn't as good..

PX-x30 keys had some complaints of being wobbly? and some quality control issues.

You are lucky that you have the option to to try them before you buy..

And don't worry about notes dropping out as both Yamaha and Casio has 128 note polyphony.

Good luck smile



::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::
#2101149 - 06/11/13 08:11 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Mta88 Offline
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Mta88  Offline
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Trinidad and Tobago
We basically only have access to Yamaha*

Don't know why I typed roland ?

:S



::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::
#2101150 - 06/11/13 08:11 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Mta88 Offline
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Mta88  Offline
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Another thing to note is the Yamaha is sampled from their 9 foot concert grand.

Which is decent considering it's price range.

But again all is subjective..
Try before you buy.

Cheers


::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::
#2101151 - 06/11/13 08:12 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Mta88 Offline
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It's generally recommended to try them out with a decent pair of headphones as the weak point in digital pianos are the speakers.


::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::
#2101157 - 06/11/13 08:20 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Mta88 Offline
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::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::
#2101186 - 06/11/13 08:54 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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MacMacMac Offline
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Mta: Don't be fooled by specs.

That "Yamaha is sampled from their 9 foot concert grand" is not relevant. The original piano may be quite fine, but the samples are poor. And so is the sound.

And the speakers? Yes, they're a weak point. But poor samples on good speakers won't sound as good as good samples on poor speakers. The weakest point on nearly all pianos is the sampling, not the speakers.

#2101253 - 06/11/13 11:32 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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gvfarns Offline
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That's true about the original sample. All samples are taken from truly exquisite pianos--whether Yamaha or otherwise. But then these samples are processed to death to fit into a tiny space and to work with very rudimentary algorithms (looping, tone coloring, etc.) that remove their essential character.

I think the point about poor speakers vs poor samples is quite debatable, though. One of the most common things we hear people complain about is that their piano sounds terrible but then through headphones (even cheap ones) it sounds pretty great. I've certainly had that experience. Samples are quite limited, but in an inexpensive piano, the speakers can be exceptionally limited as well. My view is that in typical digital pianos the speakers are a greater limitation than the speakers (though such a thing is hard to quantify).

Last edited by gvfarns; 06/11/13 11:34 PM.
#2101285 - 06/12/13 01:21 AM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Charles Cohen Offline
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I have a PX-350, and I wouldn't call the action "heavy". It's just comfortable.

There's a "Touch" setting that (set to "1", rather than default "2") lets you get pretty good volume (and FF tone quality) with a very light touch. I find the piano hard to control, set like that, but someone could get used to it. Lots of sounds, lots of rhythms, auto-chording in the left hand, and auto-accompaniment in the right hand.

The P105 (IMHO) keyboard has a physically lighter touch -- less pressure to get equal tone quality and volume.

If you could find an 88-note keyboard with synth action (spring-loaded, not weighted) and decent piano sound, that might be worth looking into. The Yamaha MM8 and DGX 640 have a "Graded Hammer Standard" keyboard, which I _think_ is the same as the P105. The 61-key MM6 has a synth action, but it will frustrate you if you want to play standard piano literature.

. Charles




. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2101304 - 06/12/13 02:39 AM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Mta88 Offline
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Mta88  Offline
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Trinidad and Tobago
As I said I'm only repeating what others have said on this website and elsewhere.

I myself have never played the P105 or the casio.

Just repeating what I've read.

So don't take my word for it. Try it out for yourself and decide which action you like best because at the end of the day it's all very subjective. Just thought I would share what I've read so far. It may be of some help to you.


I am currently using an unweighted keyboard and tbh it is frustrating for lack of the control over the music.

Figured I would try the p105 because although it is considered light, it would still give me better control over my playing without aggravating my condition.



::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::
#2101307 - 06/12/13 02:45 AM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Mta88 Offline
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Mta88  Offline
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MacMacMac I'll keep what you said in mind. At the end of the day specs really don't matter much.

Is the Casio really that much heavier than the Yamaha or is the difference marginal?

If it is indeed a marginal difference we are both probably better off going with the casio?

Piano Teachers locally tend to recommend them (You have to special order them)





::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::
#2101554 - 06/12/13 03:40 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
Joined: Jul 2012
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peterws Offline
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Northern England.
You sound like me . . recording not only piano, but other voices. You need an on board multitrack recorder for convenience and swear free operation. A decent piano for solo or accompaniment work, Decent instruments, drum/rhythm facilty . . . Best within budget might be the Dgx 640 which seems popular amongst those who have it. It has 32 programmable voices so you can set them up for future recording needs.
Only has 5 track recorder though. But it`s easy to set up, and you`ll get the instrument for £450 or so new (discounted) but it only puts out 6 watts a channel. Fine for me,but maybe not for you.

The Casio AP 650 has a 16 track recorder and decent other voices too. I`m itching to try that. It looks good and is priced just over £1k . . . sounds great value.

Most other piano ensembles have only a two track recorder which is pathetic . . .!

A second hand one may offer good scope, such as a CVP Yamaha or a similarly featured Roland. Sometomes these are so enormous nobody wants `em . . . .!

Have a look at ebay for information. You`ll see what`s going for what, and find out a lot to boot . . Have fun!

Last edited by peterws; 06/12/13 03:41 PM.

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#2101602 - 06/12/13 05:23 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Mta88 Offline
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Mta88  Offline
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I played a DGX 640 today with GHS action and to me it didn't seem that light. I actually quite liked the action. It was certainly good enough for me.

Played a 5" Kawai baby grand piano 30 minutes later. To be Honest the Baby grand felt lighter than the GHS which was weird. It also felt smoother to my hands and there was a less bottoming feel to the keys.

But at the end of the day I still liked the action of the DGX 640. I had decent control of the sound when playing. Was able to play subtle passages and also loud passages as well.

As expected the sound of the keyboard was nothing like a real piano. I have been spoilt by software pianos recently so I am not the best person to comment on the sound of the keyboard.

I will get to try out a px 330 in the coming days.
Will let u know my OPINION.. and I must stress this is just my opinion, of the action in comparison to the Yamaha and the KAwai Grand piano.

the DGX 640 is a decent instrument with a lot of quirks and it also has USB connectivity. But so does the p105. The P105 will have a lot less features as it is an instrument that is focused on emulating a piano alone.
I however am looking for a pure piano instrument so for me the p105 would be a better instrument.

Plus i'm curious to hear the new sampling sound.


::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::
#2101604 - 06/12/13 05:26 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Mta88 Offline
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Mta88  Offline
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I've played grand pianos in Canada that felt like lead weight was attached to the keys.

It was almost unplayable. I believe it was a Zimmerman.
Played 7 pianos that day. That Zimmerman was horrible to my hands so I can understand why some would say that the action from the Yamaha GHS would be light. In comparison to that grand piano it is very light.


::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::
#2101712 - 06/12/13 08:50 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Mta88 Offline
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just came back from playing the Casio px130 (same action as the 330)

It was definitely heavier than the Yamaha. But it wasn't sluggish or stiff.. It felt about right.

Very close to a 48inch Xinghai upright piano I played not too long ago.(brand new upright)

With the Casio you definitely have more control over the keys and overall the action was more realistic.

If I were to choose I would probably cave and go for the Casio. Althought heavier it didn't feel as if it was tiring to play.

I had much more control with the px130 and it just felt right to me.

The Yamaha still felt like a keyboard and not a real piano.

wrt to the new casios I don't have the opportunity to play them.

At the end of the day you should choose the piano that you like and that you think is better because most of everything wrt to digital pianos seem to be very subjective. We all have our preferences.

Props to casio for creating such a realistic Action.

Hope I was of some help.

Cheers


::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::
#2101713 - 06/12/13 08:52 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Mta88 Offline
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The Casio px series is also like the Yamaha P series in that it will lack some of the features found on typical keyboards as it aims to emulate a piano rather than a electronic instrument with loads of features.



::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::
#2101715 - 06/12/13 09:00 PM Re: Advice please! [Re: Gnashey]  
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Mta88 Offline
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Mta88  Offline
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Don't get me wrong though the Yamaha GHS action wasn't bad. Was just much lighter and I can see why some people will prefer, myself included, a more solid feel.

The casio as someone previously stated, is comfortable.

I can't speak for the latest gen tho.



::Yamaha p105::Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors::Presonus USB Audiobox:: Audio Technica ATH-M50 Studio Monitor Headphones::

::Kayserburg UH 132 Royal Vertical::

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