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Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2096329
06/05/13 03:51 PM
06/05/13 03:51 PM
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Prague, Czech Rep.
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Clayman Offline OP
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Thanks, Jean-Luc. Yeah, that about sums it up although I'm actually not very angry. I'm VERY disappointed but not angry. Funny, right?

Anyway, I'd chalk this one up to carelessness. For people like that driver it's just another box they could care less about. It appeared that the package had not even been strapped in that truck, it was just put against the back of the cargo area. I could plainly hear in what the driver said that he did not care about what's inside and how delicate it might be -- he actually suggested we lifted this huge, 133 kg box all the way up to my flat on the 6th floor. I quickly calmed him down by telling him that the whole thing cost me over 3000 EUR and that he's not insured for that sort of manipulation.

Also, I understood from what that guy said that the package had changed hands a few times while on the way to me. I probably don't even want to know how many. The delivery protocol had a note about the damaged box and a stamp but the driver told me it was some different company (to tell you the truth, I don't know what company was it that did the delivery). Like that mattered.

Somewhere, somehow, someone had made a slip-up and as a consequence I had to return the package. :|

EDIT:

Originally Posted by JFP
Well ...join the club. You're bringing back some bad memories. That's how I got my first 4 Kawai's delivered from Thomann in the past and why I decided to never order such a big instrument from them or another remote retailer again.

To be honest Thomann itself doesn't throw around these boxes or stick frames through the packaging (happened to me too , right till it damaged the Kawai surface itself). I think that can be cause by the forklift the transportation company uses. But in the end they are still responsible. Why they never opted for a better / more reliable transport service is beyond my understanding. If they get so much damaged packages back, the additional cost of a better suited transport company would be well spend and save them money in the end. Perhaps it's all insurance business and they don't care. Still a waste of everybody's time and unnecessary destruction of capital though.

I hope they send you a new CA-95 on short term and that the second one will be undamaged. It took me 6 deliveries, hope you're more fortunate. Pity you probably can't get a CA-95 delivered and installed by a local dealer with own means of transport. It would make it a lot easier.

Hope for the best ! The CA-95 is most likely worth the wait...


One would have thought they had learned a lesson or two by now. I asked them in my "report" about the damaged goods if they could use a different spedition company, since they claim they have a number of "reliable" partners. At any rate, the damage did seem like it had been made by a misaligned forklift during manipulation.

I was actually thinking a bit about getting someone with a van or a small truck to drive to Treppendorf and pick up the package but I have little idea what it would cost.

Last edited by Clayman; 06/06/13 12:37 AM.

-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
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Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2096371
06/05/13 04:44 PM
06/05/13 04:44 PM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
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I had a similar bad experience with furniture delivery.

I ordered a sofa and chair. We selected a specific fabric finish, so we had to wait six weeks for delivery.

When it showed up, the back cushions of the sofa were ripped out. I don't mean "slightly torn or cut". I mean ripped out, as though a crazed monkey had gone berserk. The driver said "we'll have somebody come out and fix it". Bullcrap to that! Take it back.

He said, okay, but keep the chair. It's in perfect shape. No way! Take it all back.

So after another six weeks I get the replacements. The sofa is fine, but the chair has a cut running through the arm, as though someone had used a sharp box cutter. Take it back! And cancel the order. And refund the full purchase price. They did, and I never shopped at that store again.

It amazes me how a seller (or their delivery service) can expect anyone to accept beat up crap in place of the expected pristine/new merchandise. But it happens.

Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2096395
06/05/13 05:17 PM
06/05/13 05:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,121
Hamamatsu, Japan
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Sorry to hear about your disappointing experience Clayman.

Perhaps purchasing from a dealer in Prague would have been a better decision after all?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Kawai James] #2096670
06/06/13 12:34 AM
06/06/13 12:34 AM
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Prague, Czech Rep.
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Well, what can I say, KJ? You do have a point, though I lived under the impression that such a large music store would have shown better care in picking their spedition partners because the delivery is as much a part of the shopping experience as anything else involved.

But who knows, maybe it was a screw-up on somebody's part, although JFP's 6 ( shocked ) delivery attempts speak to the contrary. I'll see how the next delivery turns out and maybe I will consider cancelling the order and will use a local dealer instead. Because big or not, if they cannot make it so that the shipment arrives undamaged and in order, then I cannot be bothered either.

@JFP: Btw, how long did it usually take for Thomann to handle the matter and dispatch another package?

Last edited by Clayman; 06/06/13 06:48 AM.

-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2096740
06/06/13 03:09 AM
06/06/13 03:09 AM
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Germany
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There's a heavy competition between those companies. They try to reduce the costs by cutting wages, employing cheap untrained persons. The effect is, that the drivers don't give a sh*t about the good they deliver. They have to deliver more and more goods in less time or they get punished. Everything to make a good price. That the quality gets worse and in the end hurts the company that send the goos via these speditions is probably something that has to sink in a while.

For years amazon send goods via DHL (our former state postal service). They pay decent and the quality and speed was good. I like my post man, he's a bit strange but nice and cares for what he does. Then they decided to cut costs and switched a lot to Hermes. They get a lot less and you can see in their faces, they hate what they're doing.

But poeple want free or at least nerly free delivery.

I bought my CN34 locally and fetched it myself, but with the pre assembled CA95 that's not really an option.

Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2096747
06/06/13 03:47 AM
06/06/13 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Clayman


@JFP: Btw, how did it usually take for Thomann to handle the matter and dispatch another package?


Well my first packages we're all delivered by UPS with scattered boxes. I wonder if it is shipped all the way with UPS , or UPS takes over only the last bit of transport, because the guy from UPS was very nice and really surprised the box(es) looked like that. Can't imagine he was responsible for the damage. Perhaps the distribution centre is we're things go wrong, don't know. After many pick-up-and-returns and new deliveries, I got my final box very clearly delivered by another transport company. With many extra markings on it about fragility , handle with care etc. That box was unscratched. So it IS possible. They must have figured out they started to loose way too much money on my deal with all this back-and-forth transportation. Exactly my point; if they use this more expensive , but good carries right from the start they will pay much less in the end overall and keep the customers and their own employees happy. They only have to do that for big, heavy and fragile boxes. A small audio interface , foot controller or other small/medium package can go the usual way. But 88 key instrument; no way ! What are they thinking and why aren't they learning. IMHO it's all covered by insurance so they don't seem to care to simply send it several times. Stupid , in the end they'll pay anyway in insurance fees and loose money on it.

Edit: I made pictures of the boxes and damage and send it to them. That helps. If it's still unpacked (cause you refused) ; just take good pictures of the box and damage.

Last edited by JFP; 06/06/13 03:48 AM.
Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2096761
06/06/13 04:19 AM
06/06/13 04:19 AM
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@Clayman,

Don't feel too bad at having to return your piano since at least you will be sent another one.

As for myself, I once bought a heavy Kurzweil Mark-Pro THREEi from an eBay seller which arrived with three loose pedals and the sliding key cover had actually come off of its track on the right side. This digital came "as is" with a no return policy by the seller even though it was supposed to have been "brand new."

I managed to pop the key cover's right side pin back into its track although it gouged up the wood of the cabinet in doing so. I had a tech come out to try and adjust the loose pedals which had a lot of play in them from side to side and was only able to tighten them up marginally. After playing the piano for about 2 days or so I decided I didn't like the action either (made by Fatar) as it felt too spongey/springey for lack of a better word.

I put the Mark-Pro THREEi up for sale since I wasn't able to return it to the seller and finally found a local high school teacher who wanted it for his music class and gave me $500 for it. The original purchase price was $1,800.

Piano arrived with damages and there wasn't an option to return it so it had to be sold at a loss!

Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2096773
06/06/13 05:04 AM
06/06/13 05:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 300
Prague, Czech Rep.
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Clayman Offline OP
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Thanks for sharing your opinions and experiences, guys. I didn't expect the package to be damaged (I could have anticipated it though, silly me) so I didn't take my phone with me to take pictures and I have already told the spedition company (after getting contacted again this morning btw) that I no longer care about the goods so they won't come back. Hopefully the folks at Thomann will agree that the level of damage on the packaging was unacceptable and will try to send another shipment.

@MagicK: I sort of understand that with the ongoing crisis every company tries to cut down the expenses as much as possible but I'm sure you will agree that I, as a customer, should not bear the consequences of someone mishandling a parcel because they felt they are not paid enough or whatever.

@JFP: I did a little research today and it seems that UPS won't allow delivery of packages of this size so they are out of the question. It leaves me wondering who Thomann have left to do careful delivery of any overweight package. (Unfortunately I forgot to take note of the company who was doing the delivery yesterday.) Here's hoping they do have several options to choose from.

@pv88: I would probably never use eBay to make this kind of purchase for exactly such reasons. The only time I ever bought anything else than a CD or some other "non-sensitive" product was a phone for my ex-girlfriend. And guess what -- it was marketed as new but when the shipment arrived, only the phone seemed new, the rest must have seen some heavy use, including the battery that was not able to last more than a few hours. That purchase was probably the only time I ever gave neutral feedback to any seller I have dealt with.

I will let you all know how things develop to keep you in the loop if you're interested. Thanks much again, it's a little comforting to know my case is not that special. smile

Last edited by Clayman; 06/06/13 05:09 AM.

-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2096795
06/06/13 06:53 AM
06/06/13 06:53 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 53
UK
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Hi Clayman
Sorry to hear of your experience with Thomann. It is a subject of interest to me since I also have a back order with Thomann outstanding for a Kawai VPC1 to be eventually delivered to the UK. I am considering cancelling the order and re-ordering with a local UK dealer. I only decided to go with Thomann because I thought I would stand a better chance of getting a unit quickly (which didn't work out). Does anyone have any reommendations for UK dealers who are likely to get stock from the next shipment from Kuawai. A UK dealer with similar size and influence as Thomann?



Kawai VPC1 | Imperfect Samples Walnut Steinway Concert Grand | Galaxy Vintage D | Pianoteq |
Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Eggman] #2098598
06/08/13 12:34 PM
06/08/13 12:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
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Prague, Czech Rep.
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Clayman Offline OP
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Prague, Czech Rep.
Well, I don't know when you're going to get your VPC1, Eggman, but I can at least assure you it shouldn't take long for Thomann to resolve any issues you might have with it during delivery or afterwards. smile They got back to me yesterday and told me they were going to ship another package to me that day or the next. They even went so far as to tell me the name of the spedition company they were going to use this time around (it appears to be German so I hope they prove to be more careful).

Btw depending on the size and weight of the box in which the VPC1 is shipped, there is a good chance it would be delivered by UPS and not some "shady" spedition company like in my case. I checked with their website the maximum size (not weight unfortunately) of a deliverable package a few days ago and I guess the VPC1 might qualify for shipping by them. My package was hopelessly oversized, though.

In any case, good luck with your purchase. I hope you get your item soon and without any hassle. smile

Last edited by Clayman; 06/08/13 02:47 PM.

-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Jean-Luc] #2098615
06/08/13 01:22 PM
06/08/13 01:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 601
USA
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Originally Posted by Jean-Luc
I don't know if it's because people have to rush more and more or it's just because they just don't care


They just don't care. (and it's everywhere)

Clayman ... sorry such a joyous event turn so sour.

Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2099147
06/09/13 06:25 AM
06/09/13 06:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 322
France
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This is a good news Clayman, I hope this time everything will goes right smile


- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc
Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2101353
06/12/13 07:44 AM
06/12/13 07:44 AM
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Prague, Czech Rep.
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Clayman Offline OP
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Hey guys, I am VERY glad to report the second shipment has arrived in perfect condition (save for a negligible tear in the outer packing foil) and everything fell into place as the movers arrived in time and lifted the huge box to my flat without much trouble.

The piano is now almost completely unpacked but I have yet to lift it out of its bottom carton "tub" and put it in its final place. (A friend comes over in a few hours to help me with that.) I'll see how it plays and sounds then.

I have checked the piano fairly thoroughly and I have yet to find a single scratch on it, which is almost amazing beyond words. smile Even the misaligned keyboard problem that some people here have reported upon transport seems to have avoided me. I have taken quite a few pictures of the box and the unpacking process and I'll be sure to post some of them here when I find a proper hosting service for them. wink I'll take a picture or two of the keyboard for you guys to check it out as I'm probably not skilled enough to find any irregularities but I doubt there are any.

So, yay! I can't believe the piano is finally standing here. Now the fun part can start. wink



-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2101379
06/12/13 08:54 AM
06/12/13 08:54 AM
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Czech Republic
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That is good to hear Clayman! But like you said, this is just the begining:-)

Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2101409
06/12/13 10:12 AM
06/12/13 10:12 AM
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Congratulations Clayman. I am happy for you. It's been a long and interesting road. ;-)

Best


Kawai VPC1 | Imperfect Samples Walnut Steinway Concert Grand | Galaxy Vintage D | Pianoteq |
Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2101448
06/12/13 12:11 PM
06/12/13 12:11 PM
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France
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Congrats Clayman, I wish you a lot of fun with your new piano smile Nice to know it arrived fine and the wait is over smile


- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc
Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Jean-Luc] #2101504
06/12/13 02:23 PM
06/12/13 02:23 PM
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Hun,EU
Temperament Offline
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Dear Clayman, You are a clear winner with Your CA95!

Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2101531
06/12/13 03:08 PM
06/12/13 03:08 PM
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Congrats - show us the pics (soon) !

Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2101568
06/12/13 04:08 PM
06/12/13 04:08 PM
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Prague, Czech Rep.
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Clayman Offline OP
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Ask and ye shall receive, JFP. wink

Thanks a lot for the wishes, guys smile I still find it hard to believe the piano now stands right next to me as I'm typing this. laugh It was a loooong wait but it's over now, I'm more than happy to say.

And now for the pictures... Please pardon the mess in my living room and the occasional noise in the images. My phone is not the best of its kind when it comes to camera quality (or maybe I should have tinkered a bit with the image settings).

[Linked Image]
There is nothing else in the pic to compare the size of the box to but the height of the whole package was about 130 - 150 cm (~ 51" - 59").


[Linked Image]
The packing was actually made of two parts -- the upper part that sits inside the other part (the "tub" I was speaking of) and that covers all of the box's contents and must be lifted up from the tub.


[Linked Image]
There were 3 separate folded carton plates put on top and on the sides of the piano with additional pieces of carton glued on top of each other to create shock absorbers.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Two shots of the piano wrapped in a thin poly-ethylen foam foil and covered with additional plastic bag. There were several boxes wrapped inside as well. Most were just stuffing but one also contained the accessories shipped with the piano (the manuals, the exercise books and the headphone hanger).


[Linked Image]
A closer look at the soundboard. There were protective covers on each edge of the piano and beneath the music rest made of the same foam foil as was the wrapping above.


[Linked Image]
One more shot of the piano with the protective covers still on it. The big foam foil underneath the keybed covers the "stuffing" made of carton boxes and sleeves.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Two shots with the piano now completely "naked". It was just waiting to be moved to its final place... smile

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
...where it is now in the four pics above.


These last three shots are close-ups (sort of) of the keyboard, I can't see any raised keys, can you? smile I hope the image quality is sufficient to show anything to that end.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


All in all, nothing shabby about the packaging at all. All of the carton boxes and sleeves were made to withstand usual manipulation during transportation, which makes me believe the first spedition company must have handled the package pretty badly to be able to do what they have done to it.

And of course, the rosewood finish looks amazing on the CA-95. For some reason I didn't like it very much on the CLP-470 I have seen in several shops but it looks so much better on the Kawai piano that I'm glad I didn't pick the satin black variant even though that one does not look half bad either.

Well, this is it, guys. Thanks again for your wishes and I'll be seeing you just next door in the AB forum. wink


-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
Re: Okay, that moment of commitment has come... [Re: Clayman] #2101579
06/12/13 04:21 PM
06/12/13 04:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 141
France
imyself Offline
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Beautiful piano! thumb
you made good choice...
you are going to past long long hours all three,
you, your piano, and music wink

regards


Kawai VPC1/Synthogy American D/Pianoteq 5 Pro/Galaxy Vintage D

"Remember to take the time ... before time takes you"
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