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Don't know if this is the best forum to post this but I don't see anything else that matches better.

I'm so deeply interested in music that I often wish that I had a teacher that was just as enthusiastic about the piano and was willing to go to their limits with me. An hour doesn't seem like it's enough often times. There's so much I want to learn, show, ask, explore but it's not possible because I do not have enough money to pay to see her everyday. However, I have heard of teachers who are willing to do this. Do they usually charge students extra? Where do you find them? I'm a student writing this and therefore feel like I am in dangerous waters for asking this but I can't bring myself to think that there is anything wrong with it because I just want to be more serious and learn. I heard in Europe it's taken more seriously and they even have schools where you would be in 5 hours a day and that makes me jealous. There is more lesson time, recitals, just everything. Most people who succeeded in music seem to have had certain advantages when I think of it. There was probably more flexibility with their teachers but then again, in University I hear that undergrads get half hour lessons so... Thoughts?

Well... Time is precious...

I have happened to give much more time to a couple of students, but this was on individual bases and always initiated by me (and in composition lessons, btw).

It can happen, yes, it's not impossible. But it's something that your teacher needs to offer, it's not something you should ask for.

As for what you can do: Study more, check more, learn more via the Internet, the forums, youtube, etc. Show your passion and do not limit your learning just with your teacher! Find piano groups in your area to play with, find friends to play with/for, etc... Don't waste your time waiting for that hour of the week!

Yeah, I'm wondering if it can ever happen for me and I most certainly do not limit my time to what I do with my teacher!!! I don't let myself on Youtube unless I'm in the car because I'm afraid I won't manage to get off of it all day and get to practice my 4-5 hours! Same with the internet, I love to research. But time spent with your teacher is special you know? I wonder if there is even a meek possibility that she'd even offer because you know....an hour extra of her life would do soooo much for me and I'm hoping she'd enjoy it to you know? It would drive my passion even more to know that it has effects too, such as getting more time to learn from a professional, and to know that someone cares and that I'm not living a dream world.

Are you looking for more help at reading your teacher's mind?

LOL, no not really. I guess this has vague connections to that but it's not specific to getting her to give me more time. Talking about teachers in general. I'm gonna post different topics on this site too ok? *audience groans* :P

Undergrads... depends on the school. I had hour lessons.

I think if you are able to define your goals for additional time it might help find a solution. Are you wanting more in theory? Form and analysis? Music history? Coaching on your playing? Etc., etc. Or is your teacher so inspiring that more "inspiration time" would help.

You probably already realize that economics are a significant road block. Professional piano teachers do need to earn a living.

Also it may be possible that longer/additional lesson time would not increase your rate or quality of learning.

I'm sure there are plenty of teachers who are as enthusiastic about the piano as you are. But as for offering you free lessons (that is what you mean, isn't it?), that's another thing entirely and I'm not sure why you'd expect anyone to do that.

No such thing as a free lunch I'm afraid.

The next best option is retired piano teachers who are living comfortable retirements but are looking for something to keep them active or pass the time. You get something out of it they get something out of it.

I had one once, she charges a nominal amount and lessons could go on for 3 hours we did get disturbed quite often her pets though, she also lost her train of thought quite easily and went off on quite random tangents.

About 2 miles away there is a teacher who lives a very comfortable lifestyle as a wife with servants, cleaners, gardeners her sons have grown up and left home. She does it to prevent herself from going loopy. But again there is a nominal charge.

Of course you might not get the best service or focus but its a trade off. One of them once went on and on and on about her brother.

I'm familiar with your history through your previous posts on both sites. I have some thoughts that may help you. Please read carefully.

Let's start with what you know as lessons so far. There are the violin lessons that you had, where you were comfortable and I imagine, learned. Then there are the piano lessons that you have had for a short time, summarized as:

Impressions: Teacher chosen by parents, teacher having renown or fame for being a "great" teacher at an institution that also gives that sense of seriousness (a package does not its contents make). Grade 9 solos for a first year student? From quotes: the teacher cajoles, exhorts, (this playing will make her cry) --- trying to will good playing out of her student; appealing to emotion and willpower; a confusing roller coaster.

I don't think that you have encountered proper teaching yet (except maybe with the violin teacher), and so you don't know yet what effective music study is. We should start there.

Let's look at passion first. Pouring your whole being into the music, the audience is carried away, you're feeling what the composer intended, etc. Yes, something like that exists. But aiming for that as a route won't serve you and can actually undermine you. Here's what's what:

Music is a craft, that employs skills and knowledge. You first have to get the tools. These are both simple, and humble. Yet the greatest musicians have them and use them. They work deliberately, using what they have learned, and the sum total of those efforts become the music that enthralls the audience. They may add passion and vision to the mix, but any art starts with craftsmanship. Even Leonardo da Vinci began by tracing dotted lines called "cartoons" and learned how much egg white to use.

You will want a teacher who will build your skills from the bottom up, probably the opposite of the teacher you had. Since you are going along a route that is like emotion, passion, and similar, you need that for yourself, to get the right balance and the right vision. Right now you are like a roof without walls. You are like a pilot in an aircraft who hasn't learned the equipment or cartography, with an instructor yelling "triple loop, elegantly now!"

If you get this teacher, and s/he gives you simple things to do like counting or timing, or matters to do with reading, or anything that you think you already know, do them. Listen to what this teacher stresses, and make that your top priority, however simple, trivial, it may sound. Do not try to impress the teacher. Do not try to make great music. If the teacher wants your notes to come out even, work toward that. If the teacher wants you to work in chunks, two measures, then one in front of it --- do that. This shows you to be a serious student, and you will be learning those things that are the backbone of your musicianship.

Will the teacher be as enthusiastic as you, in your studies? She's a musician, so something brought her there. But she has long passed what you need to learn, and has taught it over and over to many students. It's a rocket scientist who must teach 1 + 1 = 2 (and there can be enthusiasm about this). The interest of your teacher may well be in the art of teaching. And what makes teaching interesting is if your student follows your guidance, makes progress through it, so that you can see your work (the teaching) blossom. If the student follows that guidance, then she will start entering your world just a little bit because you need understanding for that.

Keep it simple. Your ambitions are very large right now, and that's starting at the wrong end of the stick. Your first experience gave you the wrong model.

In regards to doing a degree in something else, and a performance degree as well - You have one year of piano, for which it appears no foundations were given. What you want to do is get the basics from a decent teacher with whom you will work, so that you have a platform for building repertoire etc. afterward.

You don't have to pay the teacher daily, just for their lessons. Just take lessons when you can afford them. The local community college should have affordable beginning piano lessons. Then you can play daily with like minded people.

I like this...

Rocket scientist. You are a rocket.

I have mixed feelings about derailing this thread, but this is priceless:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNPmhBl-8I

Love it!

Musiqientist, I have read your post, here:


Don't know if this is the best forum to post this but I don't see anything else that matches better.

I'm so deeply interested in music that I often wish that I had a teacher that was just as enthusiastic about the piano and was willing to go to their limits with me. An hour doesn't seem like it's enough often times. There's so much I want to learn, show, ask, explore but it's not possible because I do not have enough money to pay to see her everyday. However, I have heard of teachers who are willing to do this. Do they usually charge students extra? Where do you find them? I'm a student writing this and therefore feel like I am in dangerous waters for asking this but I can't bring myself to think that there is anything wrong with it because I just want to be more serious and learn. I heard in Europe it's taken more seriously and they even have schools where you would be in 5 hours a day and that makes me jealous. There is more lesson time, recitals, just everything. Most people who succeeded in music seem to have had certain advantages when I think of it. There was probably more flexibility with their teachers but then again, in University I hear that undergrads get half hour lessons so... Thoughts?

__________________________________________________


Love the post.

You say: I'm so deeply interested in music that I often wish that I had a teacher that was just as enthusiastic about the piano and was willing to go to their limits with me.

Teacher are professionals and love teaching and, of course, love piano. But often the awesome students don't listen to their instructions, don't have their lessons prepared, come late to lessons. So awesome teachers have to do deal with an imperfect world.

The experienced, professional piano teacher knows within seconds or minutes what you have accomplished or not learned the previous week by listening to the first notes you play at the lesson regardless of how long a lesson you have.


Learning anything including playing the piano is mostly by sitting at the piano bench following precisely the instructions given to you by the teacher. It is important for people when dealing with teachers, doctors, all professionals that clients/students write a letter full of questions, ideas, goals because as experienced professions, it is not helpful for students and clients to repeat themselves and speak in a disorganized fashion. What is helpful is that students and clients write whatever is on their mind, goals, questions out the music- anything about the subject at hand because as professionals they can quickly scan/read the letters and know instantly what they can do to answer your questions and help you without wasting time with chatter during a lesson of whatever length.

You say: .....but it's not possible because I do not have enough money to pay to see her everyday----

Learning to play the piano is about you, all about you, doing your lessons accurately following the instructions of your teacher. You have to do the work. Most people/students have an extremely difficult time finding enough quality time to practice their lessons assigned by the teacher each week. Even if a students has nothing else to do in a whole week other than practicing the piano - leaning or playing the piano requires the student to be fresh, alert, and concentrate on playing the piano. So you have to get plenty of rest, proper exercise, eat properly and concentrate on your goals and not worrying whether or not your teacher is perfect or not. The reason is that a student can become the worlds best piano player even though they have a less than perfect teacher and the worst students that are rich and bright can't play the piano because of their inability to follow the instruction and be sufficiently focused.


When you say: However, I have heard of teachers who are willing to do this. Do they usually charge students extra? Where do you find them? I'm a student writing this and therefore feel like I am in dangerous waters for asking this but I can't bring myself to think that there is anything wrong with it because I just want to be more serious and learn.

It is important to understand that you as a student have control of your life and everything depends on what you do or don't do and not what the teacher does or doesn't do.

You say: I heard in Europe it's taken more seriously and they even have schools where you would be in 5 hours a day and that makes me jealous.

I when I was in college in the United States during the Vietman war - I am a Canadian - I went to college/school 5 days a week and so did the rest of the students at school for two years. But I knew a student that only went to night school part-time twice a week and graduated with honours in 6 months - so don't worry about the schools in Europe and be jealous because it sounds like you are so motivated that you could also study piano part-time and be one of best piano players in the world because you have the drive and are focused on your goal.


You say: There is more lesson time, recitals, just everything. Most people who succeeded in music seem to have had certain advantages when I think of it. There was probably more flexibility with their teachers but then again, in University I hear that undergrads get half hour lessons so... Thoughts?

Again, it is never what you have in an imperfect world, but is what you are able to do when everything isn't working in your favor and you let nothing, absolutely nothing get in your way and prevent you from accomplishlying your goal.

That assumes appropriate instructions. Have you read my quote, where the OP was being given grade 9 level music as a first year student? If a teacher wants this music to be played "perfectly", or musically, or whatnot - and the student bends herself backward trying to achieve this (by magic?) - this is not sound. The instructions must be appropriate. And if they are, the student must follow them through action, as you say.

You don't happen to live near Edinburgh, do you?

OK. Here's the OP's thinking:

1. Since I'm super passionate, someone ought to give me free lessons.
2. I don't have enough money.
3. Other people have advantages that I don't have.

My response:

1. There is an underlying assumption that "I am so passionate that I deserve to be handed service for free, and teaching piano isn't really work anyway, is it?"
2. Look at how to increase your income. Perhaps work more hours at a paying job.
3. Yes, we can all find someone who has more advantages (and fewer BTW) than we do.

Bottom line as I see it:

Don't let your desire for great accomplishments prevent you from having any accomplishments.

In other words, you want daily lessons but see no way to get them, so instead of starting weekly lessons (or working more to pay for more frequent lessons), you fume at others advantages, and at teachers whom you judge as lacking your level of passion. This can be a fun past time, but it won't get you a single step closer to the accomplishments you hope for.

Ann, I missed the freebies part. Agreed.

Also, a lot of the aspects of music that are not directly related to playing can be found through research and independent study. The Internet is a treasure trove of resources.

Some great replies here. I especially like what Keystring had to say.

I wasn't aware of the OPer's background.

I've had transfer students like this. The poor student was given a Chopin Nocturne to work on, among other things, by his previous teacher. It was so far beyond him I can't even describe it, but I'm sure everyone can imagine.

He wouldn't accept good instruction, and lasted a very short time. After me this student "studied" with one of my colleagues and had the same result.

My point to the OP: If you want to further your musical journey and benefit from piano teaching you will need to keep/find a teachable mindset.