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#2101200 - 06/11/13 08:11 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: jazzyprof]  
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#2101284 - 06/12/13 12:18 AM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Originally Posted by noambenhamou

I think I will call the uk and find out for myself instead of relying on these "sources".

You might also want to talk to PW member Serge Marinkovic. Apparently he bought his Hamburg D new in London and had it shipped to the US.
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...%20Competition%20Pianos.html#Post2100768


"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
#2101475 - 06/12/13 12:33 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
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Hi Marty,

I don't know how my old department arranged the terms of sale. I do know that the showroom shipped directly to them from London, and our department tech's put it together and did all the prep work. Four of our faculty went for a week to pick it out (what a punishment). I believe that the university purchasing agent negotiated all the terms before the faculty went to London.

As to the others, the one guy bought it new in London off the showroom floor. But I think he might have arranged the shipping himself. The other I don't know anything about the shipping but the buyer, an American and a non-resident of France, did buy it new from a dealer and brought it to America with her.

So, wow. You can't just go to London today and buy a Hamburg and have it shipped here? How parental and Machiavellian. Are the Astoria and Hamburg shops not under the same corporate umbrella? Is the American division trying to increase sales of their own domestic product? Are they just avoiding the comparison?

I'm so glad certain people aren't present to have their cranial pressures build up right in front of us. That image is still tattooed on the backs of my eyelids, oh my...


Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/greg-dempster/34/325/6b9/ (my day job)
#2101500 - 06/12/13 01:16 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Hi Greg,

I don't see why someone can't make a purchase while physically in Europe and then make all of the shipping, duty, tax, and customs arrangements by themselves. There would be no way that S&S could stop you.

However, if you are purchasing in the US, you must order a piano through any local Steinway dealership. You certainly have the option to travel abroad to make your specific selection, however. The thing that is restricted would be for a North American Steinway Dealership to make all of the export arrangements from Europe to the USA without running it through Steinway Corporate. That makes sense to me.

I don't think it is nearly as restrictive as you are making it out. Steinway is merely assigning their products to be marketed in specific locations. In the piano universe, that is standard practice.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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#2101501 - 06/12/13 01:16 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Quote
Have things changed that much


Very much so.

Many folks like to combine their European holidays with piano buying opportunity. Especially related to Hamburg Steinways...

Norbert


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#2101516 - 06/12/13 01:41 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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They are also having shortages in inventory in Hamburg. Maybe that has something to do with it. Steinway says they've lost sales because Hamburg is not producing enough product right now.


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
#2101521 - 06/12/13 01:47 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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I'm sure that Astoria would love to pick up the slack! There should be no reason that the NY facility couldn't build the Hamburg models. Boy, would that set the piano world on its head!


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2101572 - 06/12/13 03:11 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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How come no Steinway people have weighed in on this, or did I miss Bob Snyder somewhere? It seems to me that this thread is a whole lot of speculation, with no one quite certain that the issue is real nor how to figure out whether it is and, if it is, what to suggest (if anything).

I am confused about what to think. . . .I have to say that I find it hard to believe that someone who can afford a new 9' Steinway should be having problems like this. There must be an expert piano technician, experienced at dealing with the very exacting tastes of top performers, who can make a 9' concert grand piano sound the way its owner (or prospective owner) wants it to. After all, concert pianists demand different things of their pianos. . . . Always accepting, of course, that the issue is real in the first place.

#2101582 - 06/12/13 03:34 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Rank Piano Amateur]  
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Originally Posted by Rank Piano Amateur
It seems to me that this thread is a whole lot of speculation, with no one quite certain that the issue is real nor how to figure out whether it is and, if it is, what to suggest (if anything).


Well, it IS the Internets.


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
#2101584 - 06/12/13 03:36 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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RPA,

That's exactly what we can't figure out either. I'm sure that Mr. Snyder would prefer to not officially wade into this morass. He may very well be as exasperated as are we.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2101590 - 06/12/13 03:45 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Steinway corporate is well aware of this thread. I know this for a fact. But they haven't contacted me in the interest of good customer service. Not a peep. I would get better service at Walmart. Bob Snyder has called the manager of the store that sold me this piano regarding my posts. I have heard from other dealers as well that they know who I am.


I can see how it may seem like I'm an happy customer that's just trying to bash steinways product but I assure you that is not the case. I was honestly seeking advice on which hamburg I should get- new or used? C&A or not.

I'm displeased with my current instrument and although I was a bit extreme to call it junk, and for that I do apologize, what I mean is that it's not doing what I want and expected. If I haven't paid so much for it, it would be a whole different story. But when I buy the best piano in the world, I expect dynamic range and long sustain.

Like I have mentioned, the NY models can indeed achieve this but only from older ones such as the 1998 I had as a loaner. It just goes to show that these instruments may need time to build up to themselves. But it's a big "may" with 140k. Should I really wait 2 years to see IF the piano comes alive after 2 years? Big gamble I'm not willing to make.

My only criticism of Steinway NY besides the fact that they haven't even attempted to contact me and figure out a way to make us all happy is the fact that they rely on the dealers to finish prepping the piano. Out of the factory, they only do a very basic voicing.

The main issue is now they have to trust the dealer to properly prep the instrument. Something that does not happen in alot of cases from the sources I have.

Also, the selection room in NY is pointless unless the D's are concert prepped which they absolutely are not!!! Does this make sense??


Last edited by noambenhamou; 06/12/13 03:59 PM.
#2101639 - 06/12/13 05:43 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Quote
But when I buy the best piano in the world, I expect dynamic range and long sustain.


One does't have to own "best piano in the world" to get this.

Customers paying a fraction of what you paid, deserve it.

And are getting it....

Luckily, it has nothing to do with New York versus Hamburg Steinway..

Norbert wink



www.heritagepianos.com
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#2101655 - 06/12/13 06:05 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Plowboy]  
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Originally Posted by Plowboy
They are also having shortages in inventory in Hamburg. Maybe that has something to do with it. Steinway says they've lost sales because Hamburg is not producing enough product right now.


No! The issue is that Hamburg Steinways aren't "seasoned" for North American climates. :-)


Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.
#2101658 - 06/12/13 06:14 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Noambenhamou,

You state your opinions as if they are facts. They are your opinions and may or may not be shared by other members of the forum.

Here is an example:

Originally Posted by noambenhamou - 6/12/13
Like I have mentioned, the NY models can indeed achieve this but only from older ones such as the 1998 I had as a loaner.

Every possible solution has been offered to you but you seem to think that somehow we can kiss it and make it all better. You dismiss the wealth of information and experience offered by some of the most respected technicians and rebuilders that are available anywhere.

You selected the piano, it is not our responsibility to rectify your displeasure.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2101659 - 06/12/13 06:16 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Thrill Science]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Originally Posted by Thrill Science
Originally Posted by Plowboy
They are also having shortages in inventory in Hamburg. Maybe that has something to do with it. Steinway says they've lost sales because Hamburg is not producing enough product right now.


No! The issue is that Hamburg Steinways aren't "seasoned" for North American climates. :-)

I need to learn about gray market Hamburgs. laugh


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2101663 - 06/12/13 06:24 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Noambenhamou,

You state your opinions as if they are facts. They are your opinions and may or may not be shared by other members of the forum.

Here is an example:

Originally Posted by noambenhamou - 6/13/13
Like I have mentioned, the NY models can indeed achieve this but only from older ones such as the 1998 I had as a loaner.

Every possible solution has been offered to you but you seem to think that somehow we can kiss it and make it all better. You dismiss the wealth of information and experience offered by some of the most respected technicians and rebuilders that are available anywhere.

You selected the piano, it is not our responsibility to rectify your displeasure.



Did I say it was your responsibility?
I did not dismiss any information. I am gathering all information and learning from everyone's feedback. Thank you all! Truly!

#2101669 - 06/12/13 06:34 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Originally Posted by noambenhamou
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Noambenhamou,

You state your opinions as if they are facts. They are your opinions and may or may not be shared by other members of the forum.

Here is an example:

Originally Posted by noambenhamou - 6/13/13
Like I have mentioned, the NY models can indeed achieve this but only from older ones such as the 1998 I had as a loaner.

Every possible solution has been offered to you but you seem to think that somehow we can kiss it and make it all better. You dismiss the wealth of information and experience offered by some of the most respected technicians and rebuilders that are available anywhere.

You selected the piano, it is not our responsibility to rectify your displeasure.



Did I say it was your responsibility?
I did not dismiss any information. I am gathering all information and learning from everyone's feedback. Thank you all! Truly!

Then exactly what are you trying to accomplish and what do you need to hear that hasn't been said time and time again?


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2101677 - 06/12/13 06:42 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Oh, I'm all set brother! I completely got all the info I need but people keep posting replies...

I appreciate all the replies, but I welcome everyone to stop posting on this thread. I guess you can ask the moderator to close this thread if it's keeping you up at night and bothering you so much. But as long as people keep replying, ill keep reading. Perhaps there is some new information from someone new?

Thanks again for everyone who replied.

#2101680 - 06/12/13 06:48 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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[Linked Image]


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2101696 - 06/12/13 07:14 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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The Steinway dealer didn't mention anything about upgrade policy when I bought my B in 2010. They took my 22-year old M back which I bought new and gave me full credit for what I paid then plus $2,000. I am not saying I got a good deal, just saying what happened.
As for Hamburg vs New York, I have always liked the Hamburg more. I grew up overseas and have not played any NY Steinway until I came to this country, and I was frankly quite disappointed with most of them, pretty much echoing what Noam said. Certainly the NY Steinway are decent pianos but tonally, I think they are mostly inferior to the Hamburg ones, not to mention the workmanship, not as meticulously made and prepared as the Hamburg ones. But I do think the newer New York ones are getting much much better. I like my B, and tonally, it is really not so much different from the Bs I tried at Steinway Hall in London last year. On the Bs I played I prefer the last few base notes of the Hamburg, with slightly more warmth to it. Still I think the Hamburg ones look more pretty! Hey, would like to have both at home someday.


2010 Steinway B #586826
#2101701 - 06/12/13 07:22 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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mautique,

I think you got a fabulous "trade in" on a 22 y/o 'M' !!!


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2101727 - 06/12/13 08:31 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Dave B Offline
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It's my understanding that Steinway Corp. intends for Hamburg to supply Europe and Asian markets while New York supplies North and South Americas markets.


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
#2101746 - 06/12/13 09:06 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Dave B,

So true. It was nothing more than fantasy conjecture about the Hamburgs being built in Astoria.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2101931 - 06/13/13 10:28 AM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Thanks again for everyone's support.

Last edited by noambenhamou; 06/13/13 11:45 AM.
#2101940 - 06/13/13 11:05 AM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Noam,

It is good to hear that everything is starting to come to a resolution. I wish you well, and I do hope that you find your perfect piano.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2101958 - 06/13/13 11:40 AM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Rickster]  
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Originally Posted by Rickster

All I'm saying is that the OP deserves a second chance. We all can get rather irritable and feisty at times. It's part of being human. smile

Rick
Or, if the OP is by chance an Israeli, it's all part of what Israelis call "Israeliness" - brutally direct, excitable, and prone to arguing any point to death. In person, the typical Israeli's warmth makes it all forgivable or even amusing for us Americans. But on an Internet forum, it can be problematic.

I've had fun watching Noam jump down people's throats on the prior thread and seeing him backpedal on this one to no avail - other posters are still offended.

I long ago lost track of which piano Noam has, almost has, likes, doesn't like, and wants to trade in.

At this point I feel bad for him. He has a piano he doesn't want and a bunch of people on PW who are mad at him. He's a babe in the woods on this forum. Go easy on him, guys.

#2101965 - 06/13/13 11:57 AM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: BrainCramp]  
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Originally Posted by BrainCramp
Originally Posted by Rickster

All I'm saying is that the OP deserves a second chance. We all can get rather irritable and feisty at times. It's part of being human. smile

Rick
Or, if the OP is by chance an Israeli, it's all part of what Israelis call "Israeliness" - brutally direct, excitable, and prone to arguing any point to death. In person, the typical Israeli's warmth makes it all forgivable or even amusing for us Americans. But on an Internet forum, it can be problematic.

I've had fun watching Noam jump down people's throats on the prior thread and seeing him backpedal on this one to no avail - other posters are still offended.

I long ago lost track of which piano Noam has, almost has, likes, doesn't like, and wants to trade in.

At this point I feel bad for him. He has a piano he doesn't want and a bunch of people on PW who are mad at him. He's a babe in the woods on this forum. Go easy on him, guys.


Hahaha Brian. Ill take this as a compliment smile

#2101971 - 06/13/13 12:10 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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Originally Posted by noambenhamou


Hahaha Brian. Ill take this as a compliment smile

Absolutely!

Is there a Steinway dealer in Israel? Maybe you could call him up and talk it over Israeli-style (that is, by yelling at each other) and come up with an action plan for dealing with the Americans and Germans. wink


#2101972 - 06/13/13 12:12 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Hamburg-D]  
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To any reader the story seems a bit of "brand fixation"
Here are the reasons:

If I'd own a 9' Steinway and am not happy with it:

1] would go get the best tech trying to help me

2] explore all other possibilities including "lateral exchange" or "trading down" to a 7' grand I'd love.

Thinking that most of the issue has to do with communication of sorts - not piano itself.

Outside that, I would look for an entirely different instrument hoping the 9' concert could be sold or consigned at a price allowing me doing another choice.

With so many fantastic choices out there today, I wouldn't marry my ex-bride's German sister.

But find new love entirely elsewhere.

[True story...]

Norbert grin

Last edited by Norbert; 06/13/13 12:16 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
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604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#2101977 - 06/13/13 12:20 PM Re: "The Steinway Promise" upgrade policy [Re: Norbert]  
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Originally Posted by Norbert

With so many fantastic choices out there today, I wouldn't marry my ex-bride's German sister.


Good one !! ha


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