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Joined: Mar 2013
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Going to bed now - it's been a disappointing enough night. See y'all tomorrow for Sakata, Chen, and Kholodenko.
Regards,
Polyphonist
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Nooooooooooooooooooooo, don't watch the conductor in virtuosic passages! I'm not sure why she did that to herself. I'm sure Mr. Slatkin knows how to follow the soloist. I'm not saying this pejoratively, but if she had more experience with the piece, she would have known to lead there (and in several other places). I agree with you on these points, Brendan.
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Polyphonist
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It's late here. See you guys tomorrow.
Do or do not. There is no try.
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Are there any competitions with a large number of contestants that actually do not allow a juror who has ever taught any of them?
That would seem like a logistical nightmare. If there are 30 finalists who have each studied with 2-3 teachers that would eliminate 60-90 jurors. Jurors have to make plans in advance like everyone else and, I'd guess, are not available on a few months notice.
I do think it makes sense to try and find an articulated system that limits how many times someone can be a juror within a certain number of years. According to the Star-Telegram article, the Chopin, Queen Elisabeth, and Tchaikovsky competition all also have students with jurors in the competition. In the former two, there are rules similar to the Cliburn where jurors abstain from their own students (a similar rule appears in the Cleveland competition), but the Tchaikovsky actually allowed jurors to vote on their own students for a long time. That link is messed up - this one should work. It is an interesting article, especially the table at the end. It is too bad they didn't mention any of the competitions that don't allow jurors to have students in the competition - I know there are some. I also don't believe that the juror pool is as small as Rodzinski claims it is - there's some self-justification going on there, I think. And, as the article describes, at least one ethical teacher simply turns down juror gigs because he has a lot of students in competitions. Surely teachers know if they are going to have students trying to get into this or that competition with enough lead time to be able to decline the job if they see an upcoming conflict. What the article doesn't go into is the motivations for teachers to be on juries - the money, certainly, but also the prestige and the enhancement of their name-recognition. And more importantly, it doesn't talk in any great detail about how the initial selection process works.
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Lukewarm performance overall, but the whole play-by-play trashing of her playing is pretty much unwarranted, and excessively harsh. I mean, some comments are alright, but several are outright dismissive...one after the other after the other... Ploverus would have a field day  . On the other hand, our criticism of the flute and the trumpet player...sigh. Yeah, those people deserve it...hahaa
Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II
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Well, she managed to emasculate Rachmaninov so successfully that if he were alive today he might fear impotence.
Despite the fact that I found very little redeeming in this performance, I do think we should try to remember the HUGE amount of stuff these pianists have to prepare. It's terrifying. As she said, she was shocked to make the finals, and she probably spent minimal time on these concerti. For that, I applaud her (and the 29 others there).
Working on: Rachmaninov concerto 3, Mozart K488, Beethoven Waldstein, Bach Goldberg Variations, Stravinsky Petrushka, Bach Art of the Fugue, Brahms 118, Rachmaninov op. 39 no. 6 (Red Riding Hood), Chopin etude op. 10 no. 1, Chopin nocturne op. 55 no. 2, Bach Prelude and Fugue in g# minor (Book 2)
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Yes, but neither is anyone else. You've got to be joking. I'm truly disgusted by the lack of self-awareness present here. How about you stop trying to start an argument with me. didn't start anything. I'm not the one who came out with outrageously negative and cruel comments. And to be fair, you aren't the only one either. I just can't believe that you or anyone else could claim in good conscience that they haven't been biased against Dong for a while. I agree that "objectively" this was a bad performance, but there are acceptable ways to express even extreme negative opinions. Numerian's earlier commentary was a perfect example, even though I disagreed with much of it. Everyone was anticipating tearing it down with such eagerness. The fonts, "she-who-must-not-be-named", "she'll win because of her see-through dress", the absolute unwillingness to see ANYTHING good in her playing of anything... you're honestly telling me that nobody was taking sadistic pleasure in this? In viciously attacking a 22-year-old pianist who is far more accomplished than nearly any of you will ever be? Between you guys and stores on the other thread, I'm becoming convinced that my brief time posting on the Pianoworld forums has been more than enough. I hope you all continue enjoying the Dong-bashing festival.
Student and shamefully occasional pianist
Currently attempting:
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 4 and 7
Deciding between Mozart K. 310 and Beethoven op. 10 no. 3
Albeniz - Almeria from Iberia book II
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....Between you guys and stores on the other thread, I'm becoming convinced that my brief time posting on the Pianoworld forums has been more than enough.... Ansatz, for reasons much more than just my view of Fei-Fei Dong, I hope that won't be so and I'm sure many other would too. BTW, I think I'm very glad that I have no idea about that other thread you're talking about, but considering that other person you mentioned, I'm not that surprised. I'm grateful at least that as I requested to him a while back, he's been leaving me alone.
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Yes, but neither is anyone else. You've got to be joking. I'm truly disgusted by the lack of self-awareness present here. How about you stop trying to start an argument with me. didn't start anything. I'm not the one who came out with outrageously negative and cruel comments. And to be fair, you aren't the only one either. I just can't believe that you or anyone else could claim in good conscience that they haven't been biased against Dong for a while. I agree that "objectively" this was a bad performance, but there are acceptable ways to express even extreme negative opinions. Numerian's earlier commentary was a perfect example, even though I disagreed with much of it. Everyone was anticipating tearing it down with such eagerness. The fonts, "she-who-must-not-be-named", "she'll win because of her see-through dress", the absolute unwillingness to see ANYTHING good in her playing of anything... you're honestly telling me that nobody was taking sadistic pleasure in this? In viciously attacking a 22-year-old pianist who is far more accomplished than nearly any of you will ever be? Between you guys and stores on the other thread, I'm becoming convinced that my brief time posting on the Pianoworld forums has been more than enough. I hope you all continue enjoying the Dong-bashing festival. Don't leave - you've been a breath of fresh air here.  I'm glad you came back fighting after Poly's last comment. Perhaps the performances this evening were disappointing, but the direction this thread took was pretty disappointing as well. We can do better.
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Lukewarm performance overall, but the whole play-by-play trashing of her playing is pretty much unwarranted, and excessively harsh. I mean, some comments are alright, but several are outright dismissive...one after the other after the other... Not to mention cruel and childish.......
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Okay, a couple of things:
Fei-Fei has a lot of potential and many accomplishments already. She clearly plays passionately and is a more sensitive musician than many in her age group, and truth be told, she rendered some fine performances in the past two weeks.
That being said, I don't think it was the right thing for her to be in this competition at this stage in her career, and certainly not in the final round. As I've said before, with more performance experience and more confidence in her playing, she could really grow into a tremendous artist. Right now, it just sounds like she needs more time to find her voice and learn how to be comfortable onstage. It's strange that the jury didn't recognize this and put her in this position to do more harm than good to her image.
As for the fonts and SWSNBN, my own personal philosophy is that a little levity would help ameliorate some of the negativity that was boiling over in the thread, but alas...so SORRY if it came off the wrong way.
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I haven't been keeping too up to date because I've had to miss a lot of the webcasts and so on...skipped through all the Fei-Fei arguments, thankfully. I did manage to catch tonight's performances, though, and wanted to agree that none of them were all that exciting. I had high hopes for Mndoyants, but the Prok 2 dragged and had nothing of the dark sarcasm and biting anger that I like in that piece; later, I rewatched parts of Zhang's performances from last time and remembered how much more exciting his was. Dong's Rach 3, to me, seemed underprepared and nervous, and she seemed very on top of the keys rather than digging in. Without having read most of the prior comments, I've still gathered that that seems to be a common criticism of her. I haven't heard all of her rounds, and don't want to make any particularly mean comments--but the Rach 3 I heard tonight just didn't seem up to Van Cliburn standards.
Rana was the best of the night, but she didn't have the same polish and intensity I've heard in her other rounds. I'm rooting for Chen and Sakata in particular!
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...That being said, I don't think it was the right thing for her to be in this competition at this stage in her career, and certainly not in the final round....As for the fonts and SWSNBN, my own personal philosophy is that a little levity would help ameliorate some of the negativity that was boiling over in the thread, but alas...so SORRY if it came off the wrong way. Couldn't agree more! She's done a lot right, even if it hasn't been my taste, but she wasn't prepared for the finals, and she clearly knew it. Still, the mere fact that she has attracted devoted followers (although I can't understand why at all) means that she's doing exactly what a musician should; moving people. Not me, but still, RESPECT. C'mon. Those things are funny. Honestly, I started laughing as soon as she was announced as a finalist not out of disrespect but rather because I imagined the reactions of y'all. Competitions are dour enough. Let's make it fun!
Working on: Rachmaninov concerto 3, Mozart K488, Beethoven Waldstein, Bach Goldberg Variations, Stravinsky Petrushka, Bach Art of the Fugue, Brahms 118, Rachmaninov op. 39 no. 6 (Red Riding Hood), Chopin etude op. 10 no. 1, Chopin nocturne op. 55 no. 2, Bach Prelude and Fugue in g# minor (Book 2)
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Oh, and one other thing. If I get into the Cliburn in four years, I'm going to be following the PW thread. So in that case you ARE going to have to play nice!
Just kidding, I'd really get a kick out of being as controversial as Dong.
Working on: Rachmaninov concerto 3, Mozart K488, Beethoven Waldstein, Bach Goldberg Variations, Stravinsky Petrushka, Bach Art of the Fugue, Brahms 118, Rachmaninov op. 39 no. 6 (Red Riding Hood), Chopin etude op. 10 no. 1, Chopin nocturne op. 55 no. 2, Bach Prelude and Fugue in g# minor (Book 2)
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Just catching up on the concertos tonight...
Rana wins the evening. Her Beethoven was really clear, and her tone was beautiful.
The other two performances left the door wide open for the other finalists. I was especially disappointed by the Prok2. It was slow beyond meandering.
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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I really love a lot of Dong's playing. She is very sensitive to minute opportunities for nuance in music (which is why I fell in love with her Liszt Sonata). That Rach 3 was definitely not her best playing, and she knows it. However, I believe that Dong is going to be a force to be reckoned with in a few years.
I am personally disappointed with some of this hate against one competitor. IMNSHO, it shows a very alarming lack of respect for the amount of hard work that these pianists had to do just to be able to compete.
Donald Lee III
BM '16 James Madison University
MM '18 Cincinnati Conservatory of Music
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well the dress is partially see through. Isn't lululemon a competition underwriter?
Last edited by ClsscLib; 06/07/13 12:21 AM.
![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/full/15854.png) "Don't let the devil fool you - Here comes a dove; Nothing cures like time and love." -- Laura Nyro
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Dong's Rach 3 was better than what I had anticipated. It struck me the way her Liszt Sonata did: some very beautiful, thoughtful playing in lyrical and slower passages. When she applied that same aesthetic to more declamatory and rhetorical passages, I found that sometimes it worked for me, and sometimes it didn't. When it did, it was a remarkably fresh experience.
The problem for me with the tempi in the Rach3 is that she didn't project an authoritative musical insight behind her choices. She didn't always answer the question for me on why she was playing it more slowly than expected. Yes, some parts were thoughtful and carefully listened to. However, in the context of the whole, it was too easy to reach the conclusion that there were technical and/or preparatory constraints driving the decisions.
As so many have pointed out, she was not helped by some in the orchestra. The flute solo after the cadenza was almost a quarter tone flat and way under-sustained. Other exposed solos by various instruments were suboptimal as well.
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I am personally disappointed with some of this hate against one competitor. IMNSHO, it shows a very alarming lack of respect for the amount of hard work that these pianists had to do just to be able to compete. What I disagree with here: (IF the comments about Dong's Rach performance here, and on the Twitter, are accurate, I didn't listen myself): there are other pianists who did not make it into the finals who were much more qualified than Dong to be in the finals, who were prepared to play their concerto, who had performed Rach 3 with orchestras not just once but several times before. What does Dong being in the finals say about the lack of respect for those pianists, who, if the commentary about Dong is correct, deserved it more than Dong? I have no lack of respect for Dong's overall hard work, for the huge amount of hard work it took her just to qualify for the competition. I have immense respect for that.
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Brendan: About that old Cliburn competition thread that I bumped: I thought people might find it interesting to see it because it was not only about the 1st Cliburn competition after the opening of this site, it was one of the very first threads on Pianist Corner, maybe the very first thread of all. (Maybe you didn't realize that?) In fact, I think they would.  But if you thought it was better to close it, that's fine....
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