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Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? #2095487
06/04/13 05:47 PM
06/04/13 05:47 PM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content OP
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I don't believe James would disclose any information regarding future Kawai plans but I would appreciate any of his and your thoughts on this matter smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095490
06/04/13 06:06 PM
06/04/13 06:06 PM
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Vught, The Netherlands
Dave Horne Offline
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Yes.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095506
06/04/13 06:26 PM
06/04/13 06:26 PM
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Chicago, IL
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ThatWasBrilliant Offline
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Funny, I was wondering the same thing myself a few hours ago. I would love to see a Kawai DP with a full real piano action, as the next step beyond the CA 65/95.

Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095517
06/04/13 06:51 PM
06/04/13 06:51 PM
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maurus Offline
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Hm. I think the most challenging thing for Kawai at this point would be to come up with a totally new set of top class samples, and a first class sound engine, pushing the limits (and the yardstick) for the whole industry. Their actions are pretty good already, even without a 'hybrid' action.

But then, who am I to make such suggestions. Forget about it... wink


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095521
06/04/13 07:00 PM
06/04/13 07:00 PM
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Canada
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Melodialworks Music Offline
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Absolutely. Competition is beneficial to the consumer.


Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095524
06/04/13 07:10 PM
06/04/13 07:10 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Yes.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095551
06/04/13 08:12 PM
06/04/13 08:12 PM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content OP
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James, I hope your product managers (or whoever is responsible for that at Kawai) share your desire for such an instrument smile I hope you share it with them as well... just to remind them laugh


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095589
06/04/13 09:08 PM
06/04/13 09:08 PM
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Vancouver, B.C.
Vid Offline
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I thought they already did???


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Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095592
06/04/13 09:10 PM
06/04/13 09:10 PM
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gvfarns Offline
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I think we would all love that. Yamaha could really use some competition in the hybrid space...it would spur innovation. The closest competition is the CA95 and family. Unfortunately setting up a new product is costly and competition would probably reduce profits. And Yamaha has much deeper pockets. We can dream, though.

The other thing we can do is buy digital pianos and teach our kids to play. Part of the problem with the industry is that not enough people play and buy piano.

Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: Vid] #2095969
06/05/13 03:36 AM
06/05/13 03:36 AM
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UK
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Originally Posted by Vid
I thought they already did???

+1.

Agree, this was discussed in another thread. Kawai already have 'hybrids'.

Define your terms around ' avant grand'.

Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095977
06/05/13 03:57 AM
06/05/13 03:57 AM
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Posts: 4,100
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content OP
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CyberGene  Online Content OP
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Well, I didn't know they had a hybrid piano. What I mean by "hybrid" is a digital piano with a real Kawai grand piano action triggering digital sound. "Anytime"-series don't count since they are fully acoustic pianos with the capability to mute the strings and play with a digital sound. I can't see any current hybrid model, maybe they've had something in the past?

P.S. Well, sorry, I've just discovered the legacy page on kawai.de and indeed they've had both grand and upright hybrid pianos - EGP 10 and HA 11. The fact these pianos are no more available tells me it wasn't profitable for them...

P.P.S. Those Kawai hybrids were released in 1996 and were competitors to the GranTouch I guess. Maybe a refresh with all the latest technologies would make the hybrid idea more appealing? smile

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/05/13 04:08 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095982
06/05/13 04:08 AM
06/05/13 04:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Quote
The fact these pianos are no more available tells me it wasn't profitable for them...


...or simply too far ahead of their time. wink


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095983
06/05/13 04:09 AM
06/05/13 04:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,100
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content OP
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I hope so. I've updated my post above once again smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2095991
06/05/13 05:46 AM
06/05/13 05:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 310
Czech Republic
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No. Kawai DP actions are very good already and they come up with new and even better action very often. I would rather they focused their attention on the sound engine - new samples (the current ones have been recycled for too long), different sample sets for different piano presets (as opposed to differently EQed samples), better resonance modelling. And better QC.

Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: Hookxs] #2095997
06/05/13 06:50 AM
06/05/13 06:50 AM
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Suffolk, United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Hookxs
I would rather they focused their attention on the sound engine - new samples (the current ones have been recycled for too long), different sample sets for different piano presets (as opposed to differently EQed samples), better resonance modelling. And better QC.


I agree with this. The actions are not Kawai's weak point - but maybe the sounds are. They are ok but they are a bit samey and if you don't like the tonality you are going to be unhappy. New samples that are much bigger and feature genuine variety is what's needed. It's a criticism that can be aimed at Yamaha and Roland too. Only Nord understands what players really want - and that is more than one piano!! EQ'd or just tweaked versions of the same piano is just totally boring and a very poor substitute for different pianos.


Roland RD-1000 | Broadwood Grand Piano
Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2096003
06/05/13 07:26 AM
06/05/13 07:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
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Manchester, UK
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The fact that Kawai make not only the best digital actions but also the best acoustic actions on the market IMHO, makes me say yes. I would love to see a digital piano with a Millennium III action. If they could incorporate modelled piano sounds into this like the Roland V-Piano that would be doubly awesome.

Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: debrucey] #2096070
06/05/13 09:57 AM
06/05/13 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by debrucey
The fact that Kawai make not only the best digital actions but also the best acoustic actions on the market IMHO, makes me say yes. I would love to see a digital piano with a Millennium III action. If they could incorporate modelled piano sounds into this like the Roland V-Piano that would be doubly awesome.


....and I thought you were a Steinway pianist grin

As for modelled sounds, it looks like Yamaha and Kawai have other priorities. It seems to me like they believe Roland still doesn't have enough clout with the classical pianist community (= those born and bred on acoustics, as opposed to those who've grown up with DPs) to appeal to those who would most benefit from this technology in modelled DPs' unique responsiveness to touch etc, to make enough of a dent to justify their spending ££$$€€¥¥ on developing their own modelling technology.

And they're probably right. I've spoken to quite a few concert pianists (including Artur Pizarro) who've never heard of the V-Piano and rave about the AvantGrands as the practice instrument they could thrash at home to save wear & tear on their acoustics. (They would probably never play on anything that smacks of 'digital keyboard', with a brand name associated with rock stars). For them, a DP is just a practice instrument to save repair bills on their acoustics, and for learning & practising new pieces late at night, not a serious substitute for an acoustic for the home.

The classical world is pretty conservative. Even Roland reps have admitted to me (off the record) that they felt Roland's marketing for the V-Piano Grand (directed squarely towards the classical pianist, unlike with the V-Piano), despite all those high-profile concerts around the world, didn't get through to their intended customer base.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2096140
06/05/13 11:32 AM
06/05/13 11:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,100
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content OP
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There's something very wrong with current hybrid pianos - they are very expensive because of the real piano action, solid wood body, and high-quality multichannel amplification, and all these components won't need an upgrade ever, yet some dirt cheap motherboard which constitutes just a tiny fraction of the huge price will make the whole piano obsolete in a few years. A piano action is what it is for the last 100 years or so. Same goes for the wooden body and amplification. Yet the cheapest part of the piano - the electronics, worth of $200 will make this very expensive instrument a piece of junk in less than 5 years. See for example GranTouch - wonderful action in an instrument mated to a sound which is a joke by today's standards.

And here's a free idea to Yamaha and Kawai - make hybrid pianos with interchangeable sound module. Even if you have to pay $1000 for an upgrade every few years, it would be better rather than having to thrash the whole instrument with the best possible action, body and amplification because of some dirt cheap irreplaceable motherboard...

Last edited by CyberGene; 06/05/13 11:33 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2096144
06/05/13 11:36 AM
06/05/13 11:36 AM
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See for example GranTouch - wonderful action in an instrument mated to a sound which is a joke by today's standards.

If you're referring to the actual piano sound and not the amplification system, you're wrong.

The piano sound of the GranTouch was just fine. I owned one for 12 years or so and never grew tired of its sound.


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: Do you think Kawai should release Avant Grand competitor? [Re: CyberGene] #2096147
06/05/13 11:40 AM
06/05/13 11:40 AM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content OP
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I was referring to the sound. Well, to be honest I've played a GranTouch many years ago and I loved it. It's certainly a very good instrument but I am sure this old sound engine has its limitations compared to current digital pianos.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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