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Another picture of Chopin? #2091472
05/29/13 03:53 PM
05/29/13 03:53 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
JoelW Offline OP
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JoelW  Offline OP
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I was browsing the internet for "Chopin death mask" when I came across this photo that I have never seen before:

[Linked Image]

and with some minor adjustments to bring it out a bit more:

[Linked Image]


It is clearly not the official Bisson photo, as his face appears positioned slightly differently, and his eyes look to be closed. It seems to me like this photo was snapped, perhaps accidentally, by Bisson when they met for his picture in 1848.

There's no doubt this is Chopin. The hair and clothes are exactly the same as in the Bisson official photograph, and his facial features are no doubt his. Why have I, and a lot of you I suspect, never seen this picture before? Why is it unknown?



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Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091474
05/29/13 03:55 PM
05/29/13 03:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
New York City
P
Polyphonist Offline
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Polyphonist  Offline
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P

Joined: Mar 2013
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Why'd you use the spoiler thing for the photos?

Nice find.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: Polyphonist] #2091477
05/29/13 03:57 PM
05/29/13 03:57 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
JoelW Offline OP
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JoelW  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2012
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Meh, I made it regular. Haha

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091499
05/29/13 04:18 PM
05/29/13 04:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
Manchester, UK
debrucey Offline
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debrucey  Offline
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I don't think it was possible in those days to 'accidentally' take a photograph

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: debrucey] #2091500
05/29/13 04:21 PM
05/29/13 04:21 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
JoelW Offline OP
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JoelW  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by debrucey
I don't think it was possible in those days to 'accidentally' take a photograph


You're right. I forgot about the insanely slow shutter speed. This photo is puzzling me. It doesn't look posed, yet pictures back then had to be posed.

...

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091521
05/29/13 05:07 PM
05/29/13 05:07 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,435
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
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Carey  Offline
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Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by debrucey
I don't think it was possible in those days to 'accidentally' take a photograph


You're right. I forgot about the insanely slow shutter speed. This photo is puzzling me. It doesn't look posed, yet pictures back then had to be posed.

...


Actually, camera shutters weren't invented until the 1870s. smile


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Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: Carey] #2091527
05/29/13 05:21 PM
05/29/13 05:21 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
JoelW Offline OP
6000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline OP
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W
Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by debrucey
I don't think it was possible in those days to 'accidentally' take a photograph


You're right. I forgot about the insanely slow shutter speed. This photo is puzzling me. It doesn't look posed, yet pictures back then had to be posed.

...


Actually, camera shutters weren't invented until the 1870s. smile


I mean... insanely long exposure time. Haha

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091557
05/29/13 06:30 PM
05/29/13 06:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,453
Land of the never-ending music
ChopinAddict Offline
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I see that the original photo (the unedited one) goes back to a blog by our Elene, so hopefully she will see this thread. smile



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091590
05/29/13 07:17 PM
05/29/13 07:17 PM
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Posts: 1,555
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Bob Newbie Offline
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it looks like a "daguerreotype"

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: Bob Newbie] #2091603
05/29/13 07:48 PM
05/29/13 07:48 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 9,435
Phoenix, Arizona
Carey Offline
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Carey  Offline
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Posts: 9,435
Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted by Bob Newbie
it looks like a "daguerreotype"


Which was invented in 1839 - so that was the only technology available in the 1840s.


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Kawai K-500 Upright
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091621
05/29/13 08:23 PM
05/29/13 08:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
New York City
P
Polyphonist Offline
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Polyphonist  Offline
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P

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
New York City
Originally Posted by JoelW
W
Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by debrucey
I don't think it was possible in those days to 'accidentally' take a photograph


You're right. I forgot about the insanely slow shutter speed. This photo is puzzling me. It doesn't look posed, yet pictures back then had to be posed.

...


Actually, camera shutters weren't invented until the 1870s. smile


I mean... insanely long exposure time. Haha


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_photography grin


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091788
05/29/13 11:15 PM
05/29/13 11:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,047
Minneapolis, Minnesota
tomasino Offline
2000 Post Club Member
tomasino  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,047
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Polyphonist,

I did a quick search of Chopin images and came up with quite a few different croppings of what appears to be the same image, and the photo you're showing can be explained as the most extreme crop of all, of the same image. The more you crop into the image, the softer and less sharp the image will be. There are other possible explanations too--someone attempted to make a copy of the original image and didn't properly focus the copy camera? Could be. At any rate, I don't believe it is a different image from the same shoot, or a new, heretofore unknown image.

Tomasino


"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: tomasino] #2091801
05/29/13 11:23 PM
05/29/13 11:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
New York City
P
Polyphonist Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
New York City
I think you're talking to JoelW (the OP), not me. He was the one who found the image. smile


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: tomasino] #2091824
05/29/13 11:53 PM
05/29/13 11:53 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
JoelW Offline OP
6000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline OP
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
Originally Posted by tomasino
Polyphonist,

I did a quick search of Chopin images and came up with quite a few different croppings of what appears to be the same image, and the photo you're showing can be explained as the most extreme crop of all, of the same image. The more you crop into the image, the softer and less sharp the image will be. There are other possible explanations too--someone attempted to make a copy of the original image and didn't properly focus the copy camera? Could be. At any rate, I don't believe it is a different image from the same shoot, or a new, heretofore unknown image.

Tomasino


Sorry but I don't think this explains it at all. There is a CLEAR difference between these two photos.

The head seems to be slightly angled differently and look at the mouth. It's a dead giveaway.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091847
05/30/13 12:34 AM
05/30/13 12:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,586
Finland
O
outo Offline
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outo  Offline
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O

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,586
Finland
Originally Posted by JoelW


Sorry but I don't think this explains it at all. There is a CLEAR difference between these two photos.




I'd say it's just a photoshopped version of the same shot. There are too many similarities and all the differences can be easily explained by editing the photo.

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: outo] #2091859
05/30/13 12:51 AM
05/30/13 12:51 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
JoelW Offline OP
6000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline OP
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by JoelW


Sorry but I don't think this explains it at all. There is a CLEAR difference between these two photos.




I'd say it's just a photoshopped version of the same shot. There are too many similarities and all the differences can be easily explained by editing the photo.


There are a few reasons why I feel this isn't the case:

1) To photoshop the actual angle of Chopin's face would be a very unusual and I assume difficult edit.

2) What is the motive for photoshopping such a photo in that way?

3) Look at the photo's top and bottom edges. See the wear? This isn't just an online picture, this is an actually physical photograph.

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091860
05/30/13 12:57 AM
05/30/13 12:57 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,453
Land of the never-ending music
ChopinAddict Offline
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ChopinAddict  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,453
Land of the never-ending music



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091861
05/30/13 01:00 AM
05/30/13 01:00 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
JoelW Offline OP
6000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline OP
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
I see. Who is Mary-Ros Douglas? I can't find anything about her.

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091868
05/30/13 01:16 AM
05/30/13 01:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,226
San Francisco, CA
A
Auntie Lynn Offline
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Auntie Lynn  Offline
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A

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,226
San Francisco, CA
Fred was already pretty sick by the time the subject photo was taken - you can clearly see the ravages of the disease - he was not long for this world, poor guy. Anyway, my favorite continues to be his portrait by his friend Delacroix...

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091907
05/30/13 03:06 AM
05/30/13 03:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,453
Land of the never-ending music
ChopinAddict Offline
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ChopinAddict  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Land of the never-ending music
She is a PW member. (Elene is a PW member too.)



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


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