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Another picture of Chopin? #2091472 05/29/13 03:53 PM
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JoelW Offline OP
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I was browsing the internet for "Chopin death mask" when I came across this photo that I have never seen before:

[Linked Image]

and with some minor adjustments to bring it out a bit more:

[Linked Image]


It is clearly not the official Bisson photo, as his face appears positioned slightly differently, and his eyes look to be closed. It seems to me like this photo was snapped, perhaps accidentally, by Bisson when they met for his picture in 1848.

There's no doubt this is Chopin. The hair and clothes are exactly the same as in the Bisson official photograph, and his facial features are no doubt his. Why have I, and a lot of you I suspect, never seen this picture before? Why is it unknown?



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Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091474 05/29/13 03:55 PM
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Polyphonist Offline
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Why'd you use the spoiler thing for the photos?

Nice find.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: Polyphonist] #2091477 05/29/13 03:57 PM
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JoelW Offline OP
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Meh, I made it regular. Haha

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091499 05/29/13 04:18 PM
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debrucey Offline
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I don't think it was possible in those days to 'accidentally' take a photograph

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: debrucey] #2091500 05/29/13 04:21 PM
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JoelW Offline OP
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Originally Posted by debrucey
I don't think it was possible in those days to 'accidentally' take a photograph


You're right. I forgot about the insanely slow shutter speed. This photo is puzzling me. It doesn't look posed, yet pictures back then had to be posed.

...

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091521 05/29/13 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by debrucey
I don't think it was possible in those days to 'accidentally' take a photograph


You're right. I forgot about the insanely slow shutter speed. This photo is puzzling me. It doesn't look posed, yet pictures back then had to be posed.

...


Actually, camera shutters weren't invented until the 1870s. smile


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Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: Carey] #2091527 05/29/13 05:21 PM
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W
Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by debrucey
I don't think it was possible in those days to 'accidentally' take a photograph


You're right. I forgot about the insanely slow shutter speed. This photo is puzzling me. It doesn't look posed, yet pictures back then had to be posed.

...


Actually, camera shutters weren't invented until the 1870s. smile


I mean... insanely long exposure time. Haha

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091557 05/29/13 06:30 PM
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I see that the original photo (the unedited one) goes back to a blog by our Elene, so hopefully she will see this thread. smile



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091590 05/29/13 07:17 PM
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Bob Newbie Offline
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it looks like a "daguerreotype"

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: Bob Newbie] #2091603 05/29/13 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Newbie
it looks like a "daguerreotype"


Which was invented in 1839 - so that was the only technology available in the 1840s.


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Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091621 05/29/13 08:23 PM
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Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted by JoelW
W
Originally Posted by carey
Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by debrucey
I don't think it was possible in those days to 'accidentally' take a photograph


You're right. I forgot about the insanely slow shutter speed. This photo is puzzling me. It doesn't look posed, yet pictures back then had to be posed.

...


Actually, camera shutters weren't invented until the 1870s. smile


I mean... insanely long exposure time. Haha


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_photography grin


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091788 05/29/13 11:15 PM
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Polyphonist,

I did a quick search of Chopin images and came up with quite a few different croppings of what appears to be the same image, and the photo you're showing can be explained as the most extreme crop of all, of the same image. The more you crop into the image, the softer and less sharp the image will be. There are other possible explanations too--someone attempted to make a copy of the original image and didn't properly focus the copy camera? Could be. At any rate, I don't believe it is a different image from the same shoot, or a new, heretofore unknown image.

Tomasino


"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: tomasino] #2091801 05/29/13 11:23 PM
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I think you're talking to JoelW (the OP), not me. He was the one who found the image. smile


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: tomasino] #2091824 05/29/13 11:53 PM
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JoelW Offline OP
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Originally Posted by tomasino
Polyphonist,

I did a quick search of Chopin images and came up with quite a few different croppings of what appears to be the same image, and the photo you're showing can be explained as the most extreme crop of all, of the same image. The more you crop into the image, the softer and less sharp the image will be. There are other possible explanations too--someone attempted to make a copy of the original image and didn't properly focus the copy camera? Could be. At any rate, I don't believe it is a different image from the same shoot, or a new, heretofore unknown image.

Tomasino


Sorry but I don't think this explains it at all. There is a CLEAR difference between these two photos.

The head seems to be slightly angled differently and look at the mouth. It's a dead giveaway.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091847 05/30/13 12:34 AM
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outo Offline
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Originally Posted by JoelW


Sorry but I don't think this explains it at all. There is a CLEAR difference between these two photos.




I'd say it's just a photoshopped version of the same shot. There are too many similarities and all the differences can be easily explained by editing the photo.

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: outo] #2091859 05/30/13 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by JoelW


Sorry but I don't think this explains it at all. There is a CLEAR difference between these two photos.




I'd say it's just a photoshopped version of the same shot. There are too many similarities and all the differences can be easily explained by editing the photo.


There are a few reasons why I feel this isn't the case:

1) To photoshop the actual angle of Chopin's face would be a very unusual and I assume difficult edit.

2) What is the motive for photoshopping such a photo in that way?

3) Look at the photo's top and bottom edges. See the wear? This isn't just an online picture, this is an actually physical photograph.

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091860 05/30/13 12:57 AM
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[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091861 05/30/13 01:00 AM
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I see. Who is Mary-Ros Douglas? I can't find anything about her.

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091868 05/30/13 01:16 AM
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Fred was already pretty sick by the time the subject photo was taken - you can clearly see the ravages of the disease - he was not long for this world, poor guy. Anyway, my favorite continues to be his portrait by his friend Delacroix...

Re: Another picture of Chopin? [Re: JoelW] #2091907 05/30/13 03:06 AM
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She is a PW member. (Elene is a PW member too.)



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Music is my best friend.


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