Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Disappointed with the Clavinova 440

I have been playing on an Yamaha Arius YDP-S31 for three months. The sound is fine and the feel is okay. I started shopping for a new piano a few weeks ago.

I wanted to upgrade for a few reasons:
1) As I advanced, I noticed the keys didn't seem as responsive to dynamics as I would like.
2) The output is rather low, both on speakers and headphones.
3) The stereo separation is exaggerated. I can hear a clearly defined panning point when I get around middle C.
4) The pedal is plastic and noisy. Also, the sustain effects when using it sound too heavy.
5) The controls are minimal with no display. I have to hold buttons and push arbitrary keys on the keyboard to change basic settings like metronome tempo.

This piano uses the older method of sampling, so naturally, I assumed the current Clavinovas, which are supposedly two generations advanced would sound better. I tested them at the store and really liked the feel of the keys. They had the features I needed without other useless stuff. They seemed solid and sounded fine both with and without headphones. So, I ordered a CLP-440. The 430 is "missing" key-off samples, string resonance, etc. I figured the extra $700 was worth these features plus the ivory keys.

I received the 440 yesterday and put it through the paces. I was immediately unhappy with the sound. I played some of my pieces from my lesson book and it didn't sound how I expected at all. I went back to my Arius and played a bit. While not sounding completely realistic, it at least sounded like how I hear pianos on YouTube or a CD. Using headphoness, the Clavinova sounds like a toy. Using the cabinet speakers, the Clavinova sounds like I am wearing earmuffs, it is so muffled. It is only like this on their piano sounds. The other sounds, such as guitar and harpsichord, sound clear.

I compared the pianos repeatedly using headphones. The Clavinova highs and lows sound fine. The middle range sounds very poor. It sounds very synthetic, like listening to a MIDI file on an old computer. When playing a G major scale down, the sound is sort of like a laser gun, not a piano. The sound is very "buzzy" and synth-like. Doing the same on the Arius just sounds like a slightly fake piano. The Clavinova sounds more like a cheap keyboard.

I tried adjusting the brightness, reverb and all that. I tried taking a break and coming back. I left it overnight and tested it fresh this morning with no comparisons to the old Arius. Even after spending 3-4 hours with this Clavinova, it just does not sound good. Considering I spent $1800 for this upgrade over the Arius, I am more than disappointed.

Other than the piano sound, it fits my desires. The keys feel great. The pedal is solid and behaves as it should. The controls are easy. The sound volume is nice and loud. I like how there is a headphone switch, so I don't need to physically unplug the headphones when I want external sound. The sound panning seems fine with no defined panning zones.

I am heading back to the store today to check out the Roland pianos. I had my first lesson there yesterday on a Roland HPi-5 and it sounded amazing. I didn't even feel like I was on a digital. I didn't give the Roland a proper test despite the salesman telling me to give them a try. I spent about 10 seconds on one and didn't like it, but I wasn't even considering straying from Yamaha at that point since my Arius was already so good.

Is there something I am missing? Something I can do to make the Clavinova sound good? I can't believe this is supposedly a higher end piano. I would be pissed to drop $3000-4000 on the 470 or 480 and end up with this sound on their flagship "grand 1" sample set. I understand that no digital will be perfect, but this doesn't sound remotely like how a piano should sound. If it weren't for the Arius or the Roland I used yesterday, I wouldn't know any better.

Why not check out the Kawai CA-65 then? The Kawai is about the same price as the CLP-470 but much newer than the CLP-4xx series, which turned 2 this spring.

The way I see it, the CLP-440 is not really that much of a high-end, more like mid-range.

This is why it's best to try out pianos before you buy. Bring your headphones so you can compare apples to apples.

I also think perhaps that it's a bit of you are used to the sound and feel of your old piano even though you didn't like it. You were accustomed to adjusting your playing to get whatever sound you could out of it. Now are you still doing these things and perhaps not necessary on a newer, better instrument and so it doesn't sound as good if you don't adjust. So it could be a bit of just getting used to the sound and feel of a new instrument.

However, do try out other ones before deciding again for sure.

If you don't like the piano when you first bring it home, return it while you can. You will get more annoyed with its deficiencies over time. Go pick up a Roland if you know you like them.

Somehow pianos do tend to sound better in the shop (whether acoustic or digital).

Daniel: Don't be too disappointed. I've yet to find a digital piano with satisfactory sound.

There are proponents of the high-prices Roland V and the Yamaha Avant Grand series. But unless you're prepared to spend $6000 to $15000, you're stuck with the run-of-the-mill variety piano.

Among those, some feel quite good, but none of them sound very good. To get good sound, try running piano software on a PC, attached to the piano with a MIDI cable. Big difference.

That's definitely true -- if you're slightly annoyed with the deficiency at first but think you can live with it, you'll be disappointed. I'm definitely a fan of Roland, too.

Well, I feel like a bit of an idiot. Just a bit. I went to the shop and spent about an hour playing the Yamaha 404, the Roland 505, and an acoustic grand. I switched back and forth amongst the three with headphones in hand, probably driving the salesman crazy. I took my own headphones as well as using some Roland headphones from the store.

First, I tested the Yamaha just to see if it was a defect in my own piano (unlikely). The synth sound I noticed in mine was there. Just going down the scale from high G made it obvious. The decay is sort of like a buzzing, flat sound.

Then I tried the Roland, expecting a much better sound. Well, the sound was just slightly better. The buzzing decay was still there, but the synth-like sound as I went down the scale was not as prominent. It is definitely a step in the right direction.

Then I tried the acoustic grand. To my surprise, it also had the same sound! As I play the middle notes and go down the scale, the decay is long and buzzy. It had some waver and variation to it, so it wasn't flat like the others, but the specific complaint I had is actually an attribute of a real piano!

I spent the next hour testing the Roland and Yamaha, with and without headphones, the feel of the keys, the feel and effect of the pedal, and so on. My final determination is that the Yamaha is a bit flatter sounding and specifically, it has a more false sound when playing long notes. The Roland was a bit more varied from tone to tone, but still had the long decay "buzz" (now known to be intentional).

I went to the lesson room and tested the Roland I had used in my lesson to see why it sounded so good. It turns out it is an HPi-7f (supernatural). The reason it sounded so bright compared is likely due to extra speakers. Also, the ambience setting was on, and I notice it brightens the sound quite a bit.

Just for the sake of being complete, there are a few things about the Roland 505 that I dislike. The keys are significantly louder, so much so that I could hear it over the sound of my headphones. The headphone output has audible hiss. The coating on the keys seems fragile. The lesson piano key tops were trashed, and the floor model had distinctive marks.

If I could snap my fingers and have the Roland in my home, I might do it. However, the price is probably $500 more, especially considering that I got my Yamaha on sale and would now have no negotiating power. If I can get the price down to just a few hundred extra, it could be worth it.

The comment that I am likely just accustomed to the Arius sound seems to be accurate. For now, I am going to settle into my Clavinova for a week, comforted by the fact that neither brand is perfect and that they are more like an acoustic than I expected.

You might want to consider to read through my former posts. I wrote a lot about the 505, its excellent sides and its really bad sides. Lacking free time I can´t repeat here everything. I answered with details about it to many other threads here in the "digitals" forum , not only the ones including in the titel something like "...HP-505...".
Wish you all the best!

Send us some recordings! I bet you`ll be quite impressed with the Clavi then . . .just a thought!

I have read your posts, and I find your "Disappointing Aspects of the Roland HP 505" to be non-issues for me. The biggest problem I have with the Roland is the extremely loud thumping of the keys. My Yamahas make sound also, but the Roland is probably twice as loud.

In another thread Vid told me that CLP-130 in terms of sound and touch are not far away from the new 4xx series. However I didn't player the 4xx series, though I know very well the CLP-130 with GH Keyboard and... I would never buy something with this or similar touch for me. Very hard and artificial. Taking into considaration the GH3 and NW differs only with sensors and wood on the key sides... Even if the Yamaha did some improvements over the years... So I am completely no surprised.

And I am completely surprised by each people who buy the 430, while it's far worse than 700$ cheaper Roland RP-301 in terms of resonances. You can buy much better KAwai in price of 430.
Of course, there is always personal taste..

If you are buying a digital piano for home use the sound of the piano samples is the last thing to worry about when you buy it, IMO. Keep the piano with the better feel while playing, and the better speaker/amplifier system (assuming its not intended to be used with an external sound/speaker system), and other factors you may value (appearance, etc.)

Eventually you will become tired of and dissatisfied with the sound of any digital piano you buy and switch to software pianos if you are serious about piano sound. If its sound system is good enough you can still use it with software pianos. So don't give up one digital to get "better" piano samples in another digital. After 6 months you won't like either. (Yeah, I know there are few people that actually like the V-Piano sound.)

I understand your point. If you had asked me last night, I would have said that I couldn't go another day with this artificial sound. After being comforted that most of the sound I am hearing is actually similar to an acoustic, and I literally cannot do much better in this price range, I am at ease with what I have. I'd have to double my purchase price to get better sound.

At this point, I will probably just keep what I have and reward myself with something new next year. I will likely never want an acoustic due to size and maintenance, but by this time next year, I may have room for a hybrid.

I re-iterate what Macy has pointed out that looking for something much better next year as you say will probably not yield anything your looking for as a standard piano sound. It may be worth your while looking into hooking up a pc and a decent audio interface and get on board with the software pianos which I do find are much preferable. If you are happy enough with the touch and feel of the CLP, then moving in this direction could be the answer.

There is so much to choose from on the market (unlike finding a DP whose soundboard will be sufficient). From Vintage D to East-West, Galaxy Piano's and the Native Komplete lineup. Im sure there is something that will satisfy your taste.

I just don't want it to sound fake. This seems like a very easy fix via a sample set that is 30GB in size instead of the current 30MB. The current sample sizes are absurd. Last year, I spent $20 (on sale) for a 32GB SD card at retail. Manufacturers can probably get 64GB of chips for $5 in bulk. An extra $50 in cost to supply the piano with 10 voices each with 64GB in samples is insignificant on a $3000 purchase. I seriously want to know what they are thinking! They stretch samples to cover several tones and use extremely short loops. For what gain? To save a few dollars in parts? To keep digital pianos sounding like crap so as to not threaten acoustics?

My computer sound card in 1999 used a 30MB GM sound font. It's ridiculous that a $3000 piano 20 years later is using samples of the same size. My current TV probably has larger ROM than my piano.

@Daniel,

It appears to me that you had expectations of what your new Clavinova would sound like as compared with your previous digital as you were already accustomed to that particular sound over a long period of time.

I recently acquired a used Clavinova CLP-990M for $2K in good condition which is an older discontinued model as I wanted to compare it to my Roland V-Piano and Kawai CA95 that I already own and found out its "Grand Piano 1" is more pleasing to my ears as it has a clear bell-like tone that is less raspy and metallic than the other two. The speaker projection is very good in this model as the speakers are facing the player in the upper portion of the cabinet. Here it is:

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musi...talpianos/clp_series/clp990m/?mode=model

Sound can be very subjective in digital pianos so you may need to play on several different models before you find one that you like best. As for myself, I am not particularly blown away by any of the three that I own as for the main piano sound although I do happen to like the CLP-990M the best, overall.

Actions will vary as well which is yet another factor.

Daniel, you know, if yo listen to digitals on Youtube (or demo vids) they all sound pretty good. Some cheaper ones sound excellent, and have for years. It`s when you play them for yourself that they sound deficient. The ear lies, my friend! I`m running Pianoteq, and it`s fabulous to play. But I have recordings of my Yam which are better in some ways.

It`s in the music!

Maybe what digitals need is more processing when using headphone output. I don't think these things are designed to pipe the synthesized output directly to your ears. It's easy to hear every flaw. Even acoustic pianos may sound odd if you could funnel the sound directly from the soundboard to your ears.

No ... it's not insignificant.In manufacturing cost, $50 is HUGE.

Just because the piano sells for $3000 doesn't mean it contains $3000 worth of parts and labor. There are MANY other costs to consider. These other costs are likely higher than the piano's manufacturing cost.

If the manufacturing cost were to rise by $50, the retail selling price would rise MUCH MUCH more than $50.

Honestly, I think you should try to rig up your computer to your DP and try out Pianoteq (they have a free demo version) and see if you like that better. VSTs are the way to go now for a decent piano sound unless you go top of the line in a DP.