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If it was much much cheaper it might be worth it for a furniture piece, and piano for occasional use. In East Germany there were several brands producing basically the same piano. I remember one in a school I was at by the name of Niendorf or something, it was bought new in 1984. I remember the piano at school as a pupil and thinking it was a bit rubbish when I was 12 to 17. Then I went back to give a concert at the school last year, and the piano was still standing, and it still played. It sounded pretty rubbish but no worse than I remember from when it was newer.

Even Bluthner from the communist period should probably be avoided. In Bluthner's case they had good designs because the family still ran the firm, but the materials and build quality were not that good. The London showroom sometimes gets them in on part-exchange, and services them (not rebuilding, but servicing), and they sound OK but perhaps if you are a non-professional musician, or a non-pianist musician they can be OK. For a concert pianist, I would avoid them and go for a different brand, or a Bluthner from either before or after the communist period.

There may be more experienced technicians on the forum who can refute my experiences and tell me that some of these pianos are actually quite good, so I'd be happy to read more information.

Well this has all been very interesting. First let me say that I am not in agreement with anything communist. This started off with me being led to believe that "German made", meant good quality. I still think that the idea that nothing of quality has ever come from the eastern block is probably a bit like some peoples opinion that all Chinese pianos are poor quality. Remember, the communists beat us to space. Albeit their safety record was certainly pretty bad.

Anyway, I am actually leaning towards a Kawai or Yamaha if I can find one priced right. In the meantime, when I see a reasonable price on something else, I hope I can ask for opinions without being raked over the coals.

For the record, Norbert, my Sister-in-law bought a piano from you and I am interested in a piano you currently have in inventory.

Thanks,


Wilf

Make sure he gives you a good deal, because he doesn't have an ad here on PW...

Rick

This is exactly what the dealers who sold those pianos made the public to believe. Zimmermans were not 'bad-bad' but they had nothing to do with what one would normally expect from "made in Germany"

Re Yamaha and Kawai, thanks but I'm not the best to ask.
Vancouver Craigslist and others have so many used ones for sale, they should be almost free...

Good luck.

Norbert

I don't talk about politics here, but I made researches and I worked 6 years in Communist countries before 1989.

Communist products are not consumer-oriented, but state-plan oriented. So they can produce good rockets, space programs (as you mentioned), good weapons (AK is the best in the world, especially in guerilla conditions) during the Cold war, medal oriented athletes (their athletes gathered a lot of medals, especially East Germany, and now we know how they were doped).

Do you know where the price of consumer products like irons or fans ... were? They were graved on metal plaque and bolted or welded on the products (note: this practice was not universal, but happened here and there, just enough to illustrate the situation)

Why? Because everything were planned by some bureaucracy somewhere (input, output, price ...). No marketing research was necessary, no fear of competitor, therefore the prices were fix and can be bolted or graved on the products.

In these working conditions, were workers stimulated to work well, work better, produce good products? No, no and no, because whatever they do will have no impact on their payrolls, no promotions, no nothing.

So a piano Made in East Germany before 1989 is for sure better than pianos made in other Communist countries because their Germany heritages still had something that could not be faded in just a few decades (1945 -> 1989).

Larry F. made an interesting comparison between car and piano industries. So please compare BMW, Mercedes, Audi of West Germany to any car brands of East Germany in the same period (1945 -> 1989)and have conclusion for East Germany pianos.

It's really hard for someone who never experienced it to comprehend the abysmal quality of Communist-era consumer goods. Without market forces, Iron Curtain economies supplied them erratically. Women in Czechoslovakia had to use rags for menstrual pads because none of their bureaucrats thought to provide for sanitary napkins. When I was in that country in 1966, about a third of the cars on the road were pre-WWII models, much like the situation in Cuba today where people do anything they can to keep their pre-Revolution American belchers going. I even saw people hand-cranking cars that must have been from the twenties.

If you've ever seen the film Moscow on the Hudson, you may have thought the scenes of everyday deprivation were exaggerated. They weren't. On the contrary, when I asked my cousin who immigrated from Moscow around the time that film was set, she said conditions were actually much worse than the film depicted. I had visited her parents in Moscow in 1966, but they were so frightened of the risks of foreign contact that they didn't tell my parents that their daughter was not only in Moscow but attending the same conference as my dad. I played my great-uncle's grand piano. He was a music professor at Moscow State University and had the rare privilege of an extra room to accommodate the instrument. Thus their "apartment" was two rooms in a chopped-up palace with a communal kitchen and a single bathroom shared by 33 people.

Andy

China today is a completely different story that was once East Europe, including East Germany I say this as someone whose own family had taken the brunt for decades over there, appreciating every single food package we sent them...

The real shame was that many Western piano dealers took advantage of the "confusing" situation marketing Eastern products as "made in Germany" when in reality Zimmermans had nothing to do with Steinway, Grotrian, Sauters and the like of Western Germany.

That's all.

Norbert

Well, it’s not often that I play the devil’s advocate (don’t even like the sound of that ) but has anyone thought about that fact that, if the top-end and better piano makers can build a lemon on occasion, perhaps there might be a Zimmerman that is an anomaly and a rather nice instrument?

What happened to judging a piano individually and on its own merits? (Innocent until proven guilty?)

Okay, I’ve stopped playing the devil’s advocate and will ask for forgiveness…

Rick

The problem is Rick, none of us here knows that particular piano. We can only offer general advice on the common regard and reputation of any given piano.

East Germany's answer to BMW.

Yes, but this is due to previous East German spies infiltrating some Western companies.

After all, they needed to be employed somewhere....

Not sure if any of them made it to Hailun.

Norbert

It's very kind of you to post this picture but are you sure that it's an '86 Baldwin SF-10?

It's the East German knock-off, a Trabaldwin.

You Frenchies are so silly.

I might admit to a certain silliness (?sp.) on my own part but I don't think it right to tar the whole French nation with the same brush. Was Descartes silly? Was Fauré given to facaetiousness? (?sp., again) Did Napoléon make frivolous little quips even as he retreated from Moscow? Is President Hollande an imbecile?

Well, as you say in America, three out of four ain't bad.

J-C.

Good evening Marty, I truely appreciate the little green laughing chap who I will always think of as 'Minnesota Martian'

What I meant to say in my previous post was:

'When you're running down my country, Horse,
You're walking on the fightin' side of me'

J-C.

"There is nothing lower than the human race...except for the French." - Mark Twain 1878-79

“You know the good part about all those executions in Texas? Fewer Texans”

George Carlin.

J-C,

Have you ever noticed that Ray Walston and Serge Rachmaninoff look like twins? He liked Salad Niçoise very much. That's Rachmaninoff, not the alien.

Cheers!