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Originally Posted by chrisbell

Side-slipping. It works especially best when its a dominant chord, like the E7(#9). Well, listening to Chick Corea play this tune in its original version on the Light as a Feather album will teach and inspire you a lot. Practising with a metronome (or iRealB) is a great aid to getting those runs smooth. (again it's all down to working and practising on subdivisions).

Side-slipping? Uh oh, some of these peer review graders are sticklers and are going to expect to hear the "correct" scales wink


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Originally Posted by Lost Woods


I just don't know what to do. Switching between scales at that speed makes me confused. Next to the switching I've also have to make a line which makes sense.. well.. it just doesn't work.

Give me one pentatonic (or blues) scale to use over a whole tune and I can improv.. I'll use the scale, arpeggios, add chord notes (if they aren't in the scale) etc. (on my level). Give me 10 scales over every chord a different scale and it sounds like nothing. Really frustrating.

I can run the scales up and down but well, that's not improvising. What I need are some sort of exercises which give something to hold on. Just giving scales and say: see what you can do with them maybe gives me too much freedom. Don't know where to start!


Don't worry LW.
Learning how to incorporate the right mode for each measure could take a few years to master.
If you are stressing out over Week 3, just leave it as the week where your lowest mark won't be counted.
You may find Week 4 easier. I like how Chris suggested common tones to you.

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I'm utterly confused by Week 4.
Can the theory nuts enlighten me, please?

On line 5, we have a guide line:
B Bb A Ab G F# F
I can see that.

So how does that help me solo? Does it mean I get to use this scale (6 chromatic notes) any way I want for these 4 bars?
I think we're suppose to find another line based on third but it doesn't work that great because we get D, D, C and then Ab, to that's more than the whole tone we are allowed.

I actually have no idea what to do with these guide lines.


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oh Knotty, I have to admit that even though I understand the general concept of common tones, I haven't got past Video 2.
Video 2 is utterly confusing to me as well.

Does Gary means guide line = melodic line ?
It didn't seem clear to me at all.

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I think the idea is to start on either root or 3rd of the first chord, and then walk up or down using chord tones. That seems to be what he does in his example. Though I fail to see what chord tone of Ab / Eb Gb is.
In other words, we have
E Ab/Eb | C#-7 B7 and so on, and the 2nd guide line is
G Gb E D#

Well I just don't get the Gb.

Help!

wink

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Add to that the fact that the tune is super hard, and either me or Keith are skipping beats, in measure 14, on the F-7, it's written as dotted 1/4 , followed by 2 1/4 notes which correctly adds up to 4 beats, but on the first chorus, keith plays 3 8th notes, skipping 2 beats of that measure. The 2nd chorus, he plays all beats though. So I just think he screwed up, but seeing how he's been one of my main source of happiness for the last 20 years, I'll give him a pass wink


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It would be nice if Gary named the tune he is demonstrating guide tones on so folks could try it... It's "Con Alma" and I transcribed his G.T. lines for you... there was one mistaken note on the video transcription shown and I think he changed the resolutions in the 4th and 8th bar when he played all 3 at once... too bad I cannot upload a .pdf transcription I made of all 3 lines...

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From Dan Haerle, a different take on the "guide tone game", well explained and demonstrated:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ8i5q1nSsA

"Guide tones are the hooks you hang your melodies on."
"If they're kind of ringing in your head I believe your melody is going to have a stronger shape to it, it's going to lead forward better."
Dan Haerle

And a more basic take on Guide Tones from Emily Remler (a former Berklee student):
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vICCNOtGZ0
Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdER4qTcuRU


Find 660 of Harry's solo piano arrangements for educational purposes and jazz tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas
Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."
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Originally Posted by rintincop
It would be nice if Gary named the tune he is demonstrating guide tones on so folks could try it... It's "Con Alma"


Thanks rintincop.
This context does help quite a lot.

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Thanks for pointing out Con Alma. More thoughts later.

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I see Dave Frank tomorrow. I"m almost afraid to ask...

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I'm digging this whole guide-tone concept(s), maybe it comes from spending all that time playing and analysing Bach Chorales.
It's maybe easier to discuss when one can actually see the notes:
[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by knotty
I see Dave Frank tomorrow. I"m almost afraid to ask...
Ask ask! smile

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Originally Posted by chrisbell
I'm digging this whole guide-tone concept(s), maybe it comes from spending all that time playing and analysing Bach Chorales.
It's maybe easier to discuss when one can actually see the notes:
[Linked Image]


BEAUTIFUL work Chris. Great example of voice-leading.

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Here's my week 4, Memories:

http://snd.sc/13RRzJb

Wish I'd had more time but I'm off to SF in the morning to see the granddaughter and Napa Valley. As I said on the sight, it IS improv, no? thumb


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Nice work Jim! This is a hard one.

Chris, thanks for posting the guide lines for Con Alma. I think after I do my analysis, I will post for cross check.

Still I am a bit confused as to what to do with these guide lines. Take the first measure of Con Alma. What notes are you allowed? All notes from the entire guide lines? All notes within any of the 3 guide lines?

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OK, so I think maybe I get it. It's that you use it as chord tones, but instead of picking any random chord tone as your target, you pick a line and stick to it for some period of time.

That still leaves you with the issue of knowing what to play between those target notes.
So I assume the chord / Scale relationship is applied here? So on bar 5-5, you'd do F lydian, F# sym dim, and C major. or can you use C lydian on that F# dim, basically F# locrian, which makes it a lot easier with a lot more common tone and keeps it close to what overall seems to be a tune with a lot of G major scale. I'm gonna say that F#dim falls into the 15% where the basic rule does not apply.

I'll work on the 3rd line tomorrow...

Gracias guys.

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Gary Burton mentioned that most chord sequences have one guide tone line, sometimes two guide tone lines, and rarely 3 guide tone lines... He also said the guide tone approach is most useful when the chords are changing every 2 beats (such as the 5th line in "Memories of Tomorrow ") and when they are not obvious ii V I changes... something Gary forgot to mention is that you play your phrase into the next guide tone which becomes the resolution note, you don't play the guide tone as the starting note of each phrase, it's the last note of each phrase. They are points of resolution! Very important.

I like Dan Hearle's approach to "guide tones", shown on youtube, I think it's is less pedantic, more practical, flexible, easier to use, more creative, and funner... in my opinion.
Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ8i5q1nSsA


Find 660 of Harry's solo piano arrangements for educational purposes and jazz tutorials at https://www.patreon.com/HarryLikas
Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."
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