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#2075419 - 05/01/13 11:31 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Sadly not a grand, one day, on my grand quest for a piano my father pointed out that an upright would be easier to find a place for when I go to college. Albert's is a Konzert 132.

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#2075559 - 05/02/13 01:25 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: peterws]  
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Originally Posted by peterws
I THINK AT THIS MOMENT MANY PEOPLE WONDER WHAT THEY`VE LET THEMSELVES IN FOR , ,, , but I have to say Greig beats Mendelssohn by a large margin. In my opinion . . .wonderful stuff!


..I wonder who'd win if they had a fight?

#2075655 - 05/02/13 05:27 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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IreneAdler - are you saying you want to have 47:3 (melody)?

#2075656 - 05/02/13 05:29 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: dire tonic]  
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Originally Posted by dire tonic
Originally Posted by peterws
I THINK AT THIS MOMENT MANY PEOPLE WONDER WHAT THEY`VE LET THEMSELVES IN FOR , ,, , but I have to say Greig beats Mendelssohn by a large margin. In my opinion . . .wonderful stuff!


..I wonder who'd win if they had a fight?


I'm guessing that Mendelssohn would have kicked Grieg's scrawny little backside. I don't mean musically, I mean literally - since Grieg was only four when Mendelssohn died. ha


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

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#2075660 - 05/02/13 05:55 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Andy Platt]  
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Originally Posted by Andy Platt
Originally Posted by dire tonic
Originally Posted by peterws
I THINK AT THIS MOMENT MANY PEOPLE WONDER WHAT THEY`VE LET THEMSELVES IN FOR , ,, , but I have to say Greig beats Mendelssohn by a large margin. In my opinion . . .wonderful stuff!


..I wonder who'd win if they had a fight?


I'm guessing that Mendelssohn would have kicked Grieg's scrawny little backside. I don't mean musically, I mean literally - since Grieg was only four when Mendelssohn died. ha


A 4 yr old beats a dead guy any day :P


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#2075678 - 05/02/13 06:38 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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I have started working on mine smile It isn't going to be too tough except for the 32nd note arpeggios ACK!!!!!!


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#2075684 - 05/02/13 06:51 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: casinitaly]  
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Originally Posted by casinitaly
I have started working on mine smile It isn't going to be too tough except for the 32nd note arpeggios ACK!!!!!!


Those aren't bad though - no jumps involved; difficult bit will be making them even and light. "Just" roll your hand right and left and the notes will come out. (Perhaps I shouldn't say this sat at my desk instead of a piano.)

I think the hardest thing about your piece is going to be making it sound as pretty and beautiful as it looks like it should be - that looks a challenge!


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

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#2075712 - 05/02/13 07:49 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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I'm doing the first lines of mine (op. 54 no. 6) and it's not too bad as long as I follow the intervals... but I think I will have to ask for advice, not really sure of tempo, pedal changes, and fingering of the big chords at the end. Maybe I can open a thread about it.

Last edited by sinophilia; 05/03/13 12:54 AM.

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#2075746 - 05/02/13 08:46 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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I started at the end, and immediately got stuck with an impossible reach if both note value and pedal are kept so it doesn't blur. I found a compromise of distributing the notes, dropping one note at the very end and am sort of "spread over" the piano. An interesting start.

I learned an interesting thing. My dropped note is a high E where there are already two octave E's, and apparently the harmonics will let the ear hear the E that isn't there. The biggest challenge right now is not to let tension come in on held notes.

#2075757 - 05/02/13 08:59 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: keystring]  
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Originally Posted by keystring
I started at the end, and immediately got stuck with an impossible reach if both note value and pedal are kept so it doesn't blur. I found a compromise of distributing the notes, dropping one note at the very end and am sort of "spread over" the piano. An interesting start.

I learned an interesting thing. My dropped note is a high E where there are already two octave E's, and apparently the harmonics will let the ear hear the E that isn't there. The biggest challenge right now is not to let tension come in on held notes.


Firstly, this is Opus 71 No 6 (let's all mention the piece if we discuss it so we know which one we're talking about.) I'm not sure that's the right approach. That arpeggio needs to have the top E. In fact it's the most important one. What I would try is half pedal to help retain the lowest bass notes which you move off of immediately after playing. The IMSLP version I'm looking at suggests the switch on the higher of the two bass Es from thumb to 5th finger.


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

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#2075767 - 05/02/13 09:17 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Andy Platt]  
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Originally Posted by Andy Platt
The IMSLP version I'm looking at suggests the switch on the higher of the two bass Es from thumb to 5th finger.

I have that edition. It lets you get the C by swinging your hand using the thumb as a pivot and striking the C with 2. The problem is that if you pedal on G#, you lose the octave. For that part I found that I can get at the C with my right hand. You're arpeggiating here. So I can play the two E's with my LH and hold them, grab C with my RH and play the A - G# with middle fingers. Later on I saw someone do exactly that.

The problem comes with the B. I cannot reach that B with either hand, and letting go of the octave weakens the effect. I heard one performance by Richter, and the E octave droning on and on into infinity has a huge effect.

So I've been playing with the things I've mentioned. Did Grieg have humungous hands?

#2075774 - 05/02/13 09:38 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: keystring]  
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Andy Platt
The IMSLP version I'm looking at suggests the switch on the higher of the two bass Es from thumb to 5th finger.

I have that edition. It lets you get the C by swinging your hand using the thumb as a pivot and striking the C with 2. The problem is that if you pedal on G#, you lose the octave. For that part I found that I can get at the C with my right hand. You're arpeggiating here. So I can play the two E's with my LH and hold them, grab C with my RH and play the A - G# with middle fingers. Later on I saw someone do exactly that.

The problem comes with the B. I cannot reach that B with either hand, and letting go of the octave weakens the effect. I heard one performance by Richter, and the E octave droning on and on into infinity has a huge effect.

What I'm playing with right now is to strike the first chord relatively loud so that the octave E's will ring rather strongly, then do a rapid diminuendo, and let go of the top E only at the moment that G,B are played. It seems that the top E is still produced by the overtones, and since everything is "piano" or even "pianissimo" at the end, it might balance out. If it doesn't, then something else will be tried.

Did Grieg have really really big hands with the flexibility of a contortionist?


I misunderstood what you meant about the top E - thought you weren't playing it.

I wonder if Richter used the sostenuto pedal which would work well here? Don't have one on my piano of course ...


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

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#2075833 - 05/02/13 10:40 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Andy Platt]  
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Originally Posted by Andy Platt

I wonder if Richter used the sostenuto pedal which would work well here? Don't have one on my piano of course ...


I looked it up and found this:
Sustenuto

I have a digital piano. It does have a middle pedal but I suspect that it doesn't really function like the real thing. (Hm?)

Edit: It works. smile You play a note and press the sustain after playing it and that note holds, while anything you play after that behaves like normal un-held notes. Thanks, Andy.

Last edited by keystring; 05/02/13 10:54 AM.
#2075845 - 05/02/13 10:50 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: keystring]  
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Andy Platt

I wonder if Richter used the sostenuto pedal which would work well here? Don't have one on my piano of course ...


I looked it up and found this:
Sustenuto

I have a digital piano. It does have a middle pedal but I suspect that it doesn't really function like the real thing. (Hm?)


It probably is. An upright's third pedal if it has one is 99% likely to be a "practice" pedal (a couple of upright models have sostenuto) but since a practice pedal on a digital is about as useful as a hole in the head, it just has to be a sostenuto pedal. Easy to try. Hold a key down, press the pedal, let go of the key. It should still sound. Now play a staccato note - it should immediately die.

By the way, playing with the pedal for this arpeggio would take a lot of practice to get right. But I'm sure Richter would have been able to manage somehow. Of course, he might have been using his nose for some notes ... that man had genius flowing out of him!


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

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#2075852 - 05/02/13 10:56 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Cross-posted. I added an edit. It does indeed work like one. Thanks again. Btw, the nose technique sounds promising. laugh

#2075857 - 05/02/13 10:59 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: keystring]  
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Originally Posted by keystring
Cross-posted. I added an edit. It does indeed work like one. Thanks again. Btw, the nose technique sounds promising. laugh


I happen to have a particularly pointy elbow...this post gives me ideas. laugh


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#2075858 - 05/02/13 10:59 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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[cross-posted]

The miracle of a digital piano is that you can have three pedals including a real sostenuto pedal, yet the piano takes no more space than an upright. I agree with Andy that I would expect your middle pedal to work as a real sostenuto pedal: sustaining the notes that are already depressed at the time you depress the middle pedal.

My upright has a fake sostenuto pedal for its middle pedal: it lifts the dampers on just the notes lower than Eb3 (the Eb in the middle of the bass clef). This often suffices for what I need with a real sostenuto pedal: to sustain some bass notes while higher notes are moving. But not always. mad For example, if I play any further notes below Eb3, they will also be sustained, since the pedal is just lifting the dampers, not executing any complicated mechanism to catch just the original notes. And of course I can't get a sostenuto effect on notes above D3.

My upright's behaviour is, I believe, typical for uprights with a middle pedal that is not a practice pedal. There are a few high-end uprights that have a true sostenuto pedal. I long for one of these. Except then of course I would start to long for a true una corda pedal. Clearly the only solution is to get a bigger house that can fit a grand. help

Last edited by PianoStudent88; 05/02/13 11:01 AM. Reason: cross-post

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#2075887 - 05/02/13 11:48 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Dipsy]  
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Originally Posted by Dipsy
IreneAdler - are you saying you want to have 47:3 (melody)?


After listening to about half a dozen pieces that is the one that I felt I could learn given the time constraints, according to the Henle editions this piece is about a level 4, which is probably around my current level. Given the fact that currently working on Chopin's Waltz in A minor post, I thought this piece would be just be enough of a challenge. Hopefully, it won't be to much for me to play reasonably well, but I am not at all familar with this piece and was looking for some advice on whether this would be a good choice or not.

#2075936 - 05/02/13 01:27 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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I `ve started on mine. The very first notes involve a LH 10 note stretch . . . Who`s idea was Greig? Ha ha I think we`ll have fun on this one . . .I`ve had a peek at others. Not easy are they?
Good luck you guys!


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#2076072 - 05/02/13 04:41 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Andy - good idea to remind us we should say which piece we're playing!

(um....edited to add in : I'm playing Op12 N3, Watchman's Song)

I am really just at the "figuring out the notes" stage - several places where there are four note chords, which I'm not very used to (yet!).

I'm wondering if it is "cheating" to play the 32nd not arpeggios with my right hand, as it has nothing else to do in those bars smile

My right is more flexible than my left (though I'm left handed!).... I'll have to get my teacher to show me how to roll through them. I have an idea of what you mean Andy, but I haven't really had to do it yet, so it is another "new for me" skill to learn.

I'm already really delighted with how rich and full the music sounds - it is quite delicious!

Last edited by casinitaly; 05/02/13 04:42 PM.

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#2076074 - 05/02/13 04:45 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: casinitaly]  
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Originally Posted by casinitaly
Andy - good idea to remind us we should say which piece we're playing!

(um....edited to add in : I'm playing Op12 N3, Watchman's Song)

I am really just at the "figuring out the notes" stage - several places where there are four note chords, which I'm not very used to (yet!).

I'm wondering if it is "cheating" to play the 32nd not arpeggios with my right hand, as it has nothing else to do in those bars smile

My right is more flexible than my left (though I'm left handed!).... I'll have to get my teacher to show me how to roll through them. I have an idea of what you mean Andy, but I haven't really had to do it yet, so it is another "new for me" skill to learn.

I'm already really delighted with how rich and full the music sounds - it is quite delicious!

Redistributing the notes to the other hand isn't cheating, if that's easier, do it! I do that all the time. grin


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#2076076 - 05/02/13 04:47 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Morodiene]  
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by casinitaly
Andy - good idea to remind us we should say which piece we're playing!

(um....edited to add in : I'm playing Op12 N3, Watchman's Song)

I am really just at the "figuring out the notes" stage - several places where there are four note chords, which I'm not very used to (yet!).

I'm wondering if it is "cheating" to play the 32nd not arpeggios with my right hand, as it has nothing else to do in those bars smile

My right is more flexible than my left (though I'm left handed!).... I'll have to get my teacher to show me how to roll through them. I have an idea of what you mean Andy, but I haven't really had to do it yet, so it is another "new for me" skill to learn.

I'm already really delighted with how rich and full the music sounds - it is quite delicious!

Redistributing the notes to the other hand isn't cheating, if that's easier, do it! I do that all the time. grin


Well now, that's encouraging! smile


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#2076079 - 05/02/13 05:03 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Dipsy]  
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Rostosky I hate to do this to you, but I discussed the recital with my teacher (the mighty LuAnn), and she wants me to switch to 57/2 "Gade". So that will free up 12/8, which is one of the easier one-page pieces if anyone wants it. I'll keep 71/3 as my second piece if available.

Sam

#2076083 - 05/02/13 05:14 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Just in case my post was lost just before the last list was updated, I'd like to reserve Op. 38/1, Berceuse, if no-one else takes it as a main choice.

Thank you.



Richard
#2076084 - 05/02/13 05:18 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: casinitaly]  
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Originally Posted by casinitaly
I'm wondering if it is "cheating" to play the 32nd not arpeggios with my right hand, as it has nothing else to do in those bars smile
I believe they're meant to be played in the RH, Cheryl. They're just written in the bass clef.

Redistribution of notes between the hands is one of the first things I do when I finally take a piece to the piano. It's not cheating. Think how a play-by-ear pianist would do it!



Richard
#2076101 - 05/02/13 05:49 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Can I give up my first choice, for 12/8 smile

#2076117 - 05/02/13 06:22 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Really sorry for messin' you about Rossy, 'rushed into a decision, and wanna stick with Op.38 No.2 (This one is funny, makes me smile lol, although harder than I thought pmsl smile )

#2076133 - 05/02/13 07:08 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Lost in cyberspace.in the UK.
Here is todays updated/swapped/messed around by wayne and finally corrected list that is the current state of affairs that nobody can get confused with or change their minds again at list:

(Regardless of how cute your teachers name appears to be)

The dog eating the score is also not an excuse, the "A" in ABF implies a slight amount of grown-up-ness/maturity?

In other words seperate from english humour "dudes. and dudettes sort your selves out and stop swapping.

Except say if someone gives up their piece to allow someone else to take part who couldnt otherwise cos everything left is too hard for them.

Thats called " a noble swap" all this other business, is what we call in the uk : Liszting towards the shambolic"


Anyways the updated liszt:

OPUS 12
No. 1, Arietta : AimeeO
No. 2, Vals (Waltz):Saranoya.
No. 3, Vektersang (Watchman's song, after Macbeth):casinitaly
No. 4, Alfedans (Elves' dance); Ladychen
No. 5, Folkevise (Popular melody): Andy Platt.
No. 6, Norsk (Norwegian melody)
No. 7, Albumblad (Albumleaf)
No. 8, Fedrelandssang (National song)


Book II, Op. 38 (composed 1883 except where noted; published 1883):

No. 1, Berceuse
No. 2, Folkevise (Folk-song)Wayne
No. 3, Melodi (Melody) SwissMS
No. 4, Halling (Dance)
No. 5, Springdans (Spring dance)[1]
No. 6, Elegi (Elegy):Recaredo.
No. 7, Vals (Waltz, originally composed 1866; revised 1883)
No. 8, Kanon (Canon, composed ca. 1877-8?; revised 1883)



Book III, Op. 43 (composed probably 1886; published 1886; ded. Isidor Seiss):

No. 1, Sommerfugl (Butterfly) :Beric.
No. 2, Ensom vandrer (Solitary traveller)
No. 3, I hjemmet (In my homeland)allard
No. 4, Liten fugl (Little bird)
No. 5, Erotikk (Erotikon): Peterws
No. 6, Til våren (To spring)


Book IV, Op. 47 (composed 1886-8 except where noted; published 1888):

No. 1, Valse-Impromptu
No. 2, Albumblad (Albumleaf)
No. 3, Melodi (Melody)
No. 4, Halling
No. 5, Melankoli (Melancholy)stumbler
No. 6, Springtanz (Spring dance,[1] composed 1872?; revised 1888)
No. 7, Elegi (Elegy)


Book V, Op. 54 (composed 1889-91; published 1891; Nos. 1-4 later orchestrated as Lyric Suite):

No. 1, Gjetergutt (Shepherd's boy)
No. 2, Gangar (Norwegian march)ZRTF90
No. 3, Trolltog (March of the Dwarfs) Rossy: oh deary me what have I done?
No. 4, Notturno : Dipsey.
No. 5, Scherzo
No. 6, Klokkeklang (Bell ringing): Sinophilia.


Book VI, Op. 57 (composed 1890?-3; published 1893):

No. 1, Svundne dager (Vanished days)
No. 2, Gade ;SAMS.
No. 3, Illusjon (Illusion)pianostudent88
No. 4, Geheimniss (Secret)
No. 5, Sie tanzt (She dances)
No. 6, Heimweh (Homesickness)ragnhildK


Book VII, Op. 62 (composed 1893?-5; published 1895):

No. 1, Sylfide (Sylph)
No. 2, Takk (Gratitude)
No. 3, Fransk serenade (French serenade)
No. 4, Bekken (Brooklet)
No. 5, Drømmesyn (Phantom)Pavel.K
No. 6, Hjemad (Homeward): Dire tonic.


Book VIII, Op. 65 (composed 1896; published 1897):

No. 1, Fra ungdomsdagene (From early years): Morodiene.
No. 2, Bondens sang (Peasant's song)
No. 3, Tungsinn (Melancholy)
No. 4, Salong (Salon)
No. 5, I balladetone (Ballad):Rupak.
No. 6, Bryllupsdag på Troldhaugen (Wedding Day at Troldhaugen): Ganddalf.


Book IX, Op. 68 (composed 1898-9; published 1899; Nos. 4 and 5 were orchestrated in 1899):

No. 1, Matrosenes oppsang (Sailor's song):ElleC
No. 2, Bestemors menuet (Grandmother's minuet)
No. 3, For dine føtter (At your feet)
No. 4, Aften på højfjellet (Evening in the mountains): Limefriday.
No. 5, Bådnlåt (At the cradle)
No. 6, Valse mélancolique (Melancholy waltz)


Book X, Op. 71 (composed and published 1901):

No. 1, Det var engang (Once upon a time)
No. 2, Sommeraften (Summer's eve):FARMGIRL
No. 3, Småtroll (Puck)
No. 4, Skogstillhet (Peace in the woods):VALENCIA.
No. 5, Halling
No. 6, Forbi (Gone)Keystring
No. 7, Etterklang (Remembrances):dynamobt.



And if they are not taken by others , then we have second choices of:
Valencia (57.1)
Saranoya (47.2)
Morodiene ( 71.5)
Ganddalf (68.5)
Limefriday (71.1)
Dipsey ( 47.3)
Ladychen (38.4)
Peterws (47.6)
SamS (71.3)
Beric (43.6)
SwissMS (38.7)
Dire tonic (68.3)
ragnhildK (43.2)
ZRTF90; (38.1)




Rise like lions after slumber,in unvanquishable number. Shake your chains to earth like dew
which in sleep has fallen on you. Ye are many,they are few. Shelley

Founder and creator ofRostoskys 13th crystal skull project
#2076389 - 05/03/13 01:11 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: zrtf90]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,730
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014
casinitaly  Offline


Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,730
Italy
Originally Posted by zrtf90
Originally Posted by casinitaly
I'm wondering if it is "cheating" to play the 32nd not arpeggios with my right hand, as it has nothing else to do in those bars smile
I believe they're meant to be played in the RH, Cheryl. They're just written in the bass clef.

Redistribution of notes between the hands is one of the first things I do when I finally take a piece to the piano. It's not cheating. Think how a play-by-ear pianist would do it!


I've only done a tiny bit of re-distribution - in a Schumann piece I started a few weeks ago. It was for a chord that was (for me) physically impossible to play!

Your logic of a play-by-ear pianist's approach makes sense. I don't do much playing-by-ear so it didn't seem obvious to me right off the bat.

Thanks Richard!


[Linked Image]
#2076694 - 05/03/13 01:32 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,009
Saranoya Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Saranoya  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,009
Brussels, Belgium
Sorry to be difficult again, but eh ... the 'Album Leaf' I have in my Carl Fischer book is actually not the one I thought it was (it's a typo in the book: it says it's opus 47/2, but it's actually opus 12/7).

So ... could I change my second choice? Please?


Plodding through piano music at a frustratingly slow pace since 9/2012.

Standard disclaimer: I teach many things. Piano is not one of them.
Page 6 of 32 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 31 32

Moderated by  BB Player, casinitaly 

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