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#2085623 - 05/20/13 08:08 AM CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer  
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Rich W Offline
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Kawai CA93, Lowrey Marquis
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#2085649 - 05/20/13 09:23 AM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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Qbert Offline
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- GF Wooden-Key Action

Is that the same action of CA65/95? confused


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
#2085653 - 05/20/13 09:37 AM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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Kawai James Offline
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Yes.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2085657 - 05/20/13 09:51 AM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Kawai James]  
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CS10 will be great. When I was shopping DP's I played the CA95 and the Kurzweil CUP2 side-by-side in the showroom. At the time I was thinking that if only the CA95 had the CUP2 polished ebony look it would be an amazing DP... and now we have it, summer 2013.


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
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#2085671 - 05/20/13 10:21 AM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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The CS-10 is pretty much "CA-95 in a polished ebony coat".


-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
#2085686 - 05/20/13 10:53 AM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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Sorry, I don't understand: "Ultimate Hybrid Piano" what Hybrid stands for? Isn't it for the cabinet look only?!


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
#2085729 - 05/20/13 12:07 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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Would that I could have waited for this instead of getting my CA95. Oh well, save a bit of money I guess :P

#2085733 - 05/20/13 12:13 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Qbert]  
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Originally Posted by Qbert
Sorry, I don't understand: "Ultimate Hybrid Piano" what Hybrid stands for? Isn't it for the cabinet look only?!


"Hybrid" is just a contemporary marketing word used in so many industries these days. I guess it sounds better than crossbreed, mixture, fusion, etc

In this case hybrid just simply means that it has components of an AP + DP = HP (Hybrid Piano), It certainly separates itself from "digital piano" IMO. I would expect an HP to be superior to a DP from a marketing standpoint.


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2085762 - 05/20/13 01:13 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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Marketing indeed! Yamaha's turn to respond to Kawai hijacking the use of 'their' marketing term 'hybrid'. smile

I assume it's the cabinet and soundboard in this case?

I played a CS9 several times befor purchasing my current DP. It was a fantastic instrument with a lovely cabinet design and finish. I'm sure the CS10 is a worthy successor.

#2085787 - 05/20/13 02:12 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Qbert]  
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Originally Posted by Qbert
Sorry, I don't understand: "Ultimate Hybrid Piano" what Hybrid stands for? Isn't it for the cabinet look only?!

Kawai misuses for marketing purpose this term for the CA95 and CS10 because of their real soundboard made of wood like real piano...
The action is the same as CA65, and 95, and therefore not hybrid in the yamaha sense

Last edited by enzo.sandrolini; 05/20/13 02:13 PM.

Music is a lifestyle
#2085813 - 05/20/13 02:53 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: enzo.sandrolini]  
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Originally Posted by enzo.sandrolini
Originally Posted by Qbert
Sorry, I don't understand: "Ultimate Hybrid Piano" what Hybrid stands for? Isn't it for the cabinet look only?!

Kawai misuses for marketing purpose this term for the CA95 and CS10 because of their real soundboard made of wood like real piano...
The action is the same as CA65, and 95, and therefore not hybrid in the yamaha sense


So if Hybrid is based on action, would Kawai have to use the Millennium III Action in the CS10? Would you consider that to be hybrid same as Yamaha?


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2085835 - 05/20/13 03:35 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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I'm pretty sure that the paring of the sound board system to the Grand Feel actions used in the CA 65/95 into the K2 style cabinet is what, together, brings Kawai to call this the "Ultimate" of their hybrids at present time.


Kawai CA93, Lowrey Marquis
#2085859 - 05/20/13 04:17 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Qbert]  
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Originally Posted by Qbert
Sorry, I don't understand: "Ultimate Hybrid Piano"


Neither do I! I don't think they're hybrids at all - the CS10, NU1 and so on - they are just fancier simulations. The only pianos that could properly be called hybrid would be 'silent pianos' and the Disklavier because they actually are acoustic pianos but are also fully electronic and midi-capable. That's genuine hybrid.

The fact that silent pianos are - according to a lot of accounts on here and elsewhere - not much good is neither here not there.

Hybrid applied to the likes of the CS10 or LX15 is just marketing nonsense.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
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#2085900 - 05/20/13 05:01 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: toddy]  
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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by Qbert
Sorry, I don't understand: "Ultimate Hybrid Piano"


Neither do I! I don't think they're hybrids at all - the CS10, NU1 and so on - they are just fancier simulations. The only pianos that could properly be called hybrid would be 'silent pianos' and the Disklavier because they actually are acoustic pianos but are also fully electronic and midi-capable. That's genuine hybrid.

The fact that silent pianos are - according to a lot of accounts on here and elsewhere - not much good is neither here not there.

Hybrid applied to the likes of the CS10 or LX15 is just marketing nonsense.


You make a good point about silent pianos being "properly" called hybrid. Using this analogy: If a hybrid vehicle is a vehicle that uses two distinct power sources to move the vehicle; gas or battery. Then a hybrid piano is a piano that would use two distinct sources to make sound; hammers on strings or digital sound engine.

Last edited by Marko in Boston; 05/20/13 05:03 PM.

KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2085903 - 05/20/13 05:04 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: spanishbuddha]  
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Marketing indeed! Yamaha's turn to respond to Kawai hijacking the use of 'their' marketing term 'hybrid'. smile


I believe the 'Hybrid' term was initially used in the HA11 digital piano, launched in 1998.

However, the 'Hybrid' logo/concept was properly introduced with the AnyTimeX upright pianos back in 2007:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/press/20071001.asp (half-way down the page)

But regardless of who was first to use this term, or if you even believe it's appropriate to describe acoustic piano-like characteristics of a digital piano, the fact remains that the CS10 is a fantastic instrument. wink

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2085910 - 05/20/13 05:19 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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...the fact remains that the CS10 is a fantastic instrument....

You bet! It looks beautiful, I've no doubt it feels beautiful, sounds beautiful and performs beautifully. However, this is entirely beside the point. wink


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2085927 - 05/20/13 05:54 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: toddy]  
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True Toddy. maybe start a new "hybrid" topic if needed. We all got a little off topic.


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2085976 - 05/20/13 08:25 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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Surely as long as some characteristics, whatever they may be, from each of the two things are hybridised it can be called a hybrid. To suggest the CS10 is not a hybrid is to suggest that the cabinet and soundboard of an acoustic piano is not a very important part of the instrument.

#2086124 - 05/21/13 05:19 AM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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Well yes, the soundboard might qualify it as approaching hybrid status and even more so the hammer mechanism in Yamaha's AvantGrands and NU1. Still, these are only simulations, I'd have thought, whereas the whole system is both acoustic and electronic in the Disklavier and the modern silent pianos.

This is hybrid: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musi...pianos/upright_pianos/b1_sg2/?mode=model


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2086140 - 05/21/13 07:04 AM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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Yes, that is a hybrid. But the CS10 is also a hybrid. It just hybridises different things.

#2086167 - 05/21/13 08:24 AM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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Yes you could say that. But in that case, all decent DP's including low price ones are hybrids because the most important features: keyboard design and piano sound engine, incorporate features of the real piano: graded samples & or modelling, complex resonance features, actual hammers etc. Sound and touch are considered essential. The way those things are achieved (materials and specific mechanisms) are not.

All of them hybridise different things according to a list of priorities.


Last edited by toddy; 05/21/13 08:37 AM.

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Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2086208 - 05/21/13 10:41 AM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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No. Those DPs do not have a wooden sound board and cabinet. That is the feature the CS10 takes from an acoustic piano. It's not a simulation of a wooden cabinet, it is a wooden cabinet.

#2086219 - 05/21/13 11:07 AM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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Yes, that's true. I suppose what's worrying me, deep down, about the way the term is being used, is that it is being applied to specifically none essential - and, indeed, superficial - features. I suppose you can make a thing a hybrid because of superficial features but it seems a bit off kilter somehow as these marketing terms often are.

Is the piano cabinet part of its essence? It's a good question, but I wouldn't have thought so. It could equally well be concealing (and sometimes is concealing) a drinks cabinet. And you could call such an object a hybrid of a drinks cabinet and a piano. But functionally, it's not a piano at all - just a drinks cabinet.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2086248 - 05/21/13 01:17 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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I own a CA95 and I was originally going to get a CA65 until I played on one. I can tell you that the wooden soundboard makes a very real difference indeed. Enough to convince a poor student to pay another £600. As for the cabinet, it could be an important factor if you intended to use the piano as a teaching instrument.

#2086260 - 05/21/13 01:43 PM Re: CS 10 On Kawai US site Available By Summer [Re: Rich W]  
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One of the reasons I got a cabinet style DP rather than a straight keyboard type was so that it looked better for teaching - and it IS better too because the pedals are fixed in the right position and the frame is solid so you can play fff without it falling off its perch. Even so, I don't know if that makes my piano 'more hybrid' than, say, an RD700NX.

And I agree the soundboard is a piano-like feature, but in the CA95, it is activated by an electric transducer, not naturally vibrating strings.

You can call them hybrid if you like but it strikes me more as a marketing term than a real description, especially given that indisputable hybrid pianos have existed since the 1980's in the form of the Disklavier.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Monitors: Yamaha HS7s .

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck

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