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#2084198 - 05/17/13 02:23 PM Students' attitude list??  
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bzpiano Offline
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Originally Posted by Partial list example
1. No Whining.
2. No saying "I can't".
3. No Rudeness, no swearing, treat your teacher with respect.
4. No banging on the piano. When piano lid is close, no elbow on piano! No throwing things.
5. Not being perfectionist! Everyone make mistakes, it is okay to make mistakes, I do not need to see your sour and angry face every time you make mistakes!
6. Bring all your note book, piano books, and theory books!
7. If you haven't practice, tell your teacher, then we can do something else rather than going thru your songs.
8. Be open. Be willing to change. Even if you think your way is better or it's too hard to do something different, give it a try. Some things just take time.
9. Don't be defensive. You pay your teacher to give you help. Use it.
10. Don’t be angry when your teacher point out your mistakes. That is my job to tell you that you play wrong!


Hello!
I am trying to write a list that I expect my students to follow during lesson to make our lessons smooth and to prevent bad attitude. I came out with this list (mainly copy and paste from other people). Is there anything else you like to add? Together we can compile a list and use it in our studio.
Thanks!


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#2084205 - 05/17/13 02:35 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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Great idea.
A lot could fall under the category of "no rudeness," but I might add specifically "No interrupting. No playing the piano or talking while your teacher is trying to talk."

Also, for the final edit for when you'll be actually distributing this to people, make sure #7 says "If you haven't practiced" and "through" instead of "thru."

#2084207 - 05/17/13 02:37 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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Your list states what you don't want students to do. How about what you do want them to do?

#2084208 - 05/17/13 02:43 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: keystring]  
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Originally Posted by keystring
Your list states what you don't want students to do. How about what you do want them to do?
Here's my abridged list:
1. Do what I say, and all will work out well.
wink

Last edited by Morodiene; 05/17/13 02:43 PM.

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#2084212 - 05/17/13 02:47 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: keystring]  
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Originally Posted by keystring
Your list states what you don't want students to do. How about what you do want them to do?

ok, how about:
"DO not whine, DO not say 'I can't'..."
wink

#2084214 - 05/17/13 02:50 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by keystring
Your list states what you don't want students to do. How about what you do want them to do?
Here's my abridged list:
1. Do what I say, and all will work out well.
wink

I completely disagree. Blindly following a teacher is the worst possible thing a student can do. They will never be the teacher, because they aren't the teacher, but they will also never be their own individual, just a musical machine destined to fail.

You should find a teacher who agrees with you on most matters of interpretation, and then work with that teacher. If a teacher tells you to do X and you disagree, think it over, and if you still think your way is better, then you should do what you feel is right. Doing a questionable interpretation your way is better than doing a "correct" interpretation that you feel is wrong, because you won't be able to connect to the music at all that way.

Last edited by Polyphonist; 05/17/13 02:50 PM.

Regards,

Polyphonist
#2084215 - 05/17/13 02:50 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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No, but really.
I see the point of not making a list with a whole bunch of "No's," but I think in reality if you are having regular discipline issues (although if the discipline issues really are regular, and it's occurring from many different students, then perhaps it is more of a problem on the teacher's end?) but if it's not that, it's a lot easier to enforce a list of "Don't"'s (that ideally the student has already agreed upon?) by pointing out "you did this when you promised you wouldn't," instead of the more vague "just do what I say."

#2084216 - 05/17/13 02:51 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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It comes across as whiny and negative. All those things they can't do, and then they can't be perfectionist? I wouldn't send my kid to you, given that.

#2084218 - 05/17/13 02:54 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by keystring
Your list states what you don't want students to do. How about what you do want them to do?
Here's my abridged list:
1. Do what I say, and all will work out well.
wink

I completely disagree. Blindly following a teacher is the worst possible thing a student can do. They will never be the teacher, because they aren't the teacher, but they will also never be their own individual, just a musical machine destined to fail.

You should find a teacher who agrees with you on most matters of interpretation, and then work with that teacher. If a teacher tells you to do X and you disagree, think it over, and if you still think your way is better, then you should do what you feel is right. Doing a questionable interpretation your way is better than doing a "correct" interpretation that you feel is wrong, because you won't be able to connect to the music at all that way.
We are talking about children here, not adults. I HOPE adults don't need a list of rules on how to behave at a lesson. crazy


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#2084222 - 05/17/13 02:56 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: red-rose]  
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Originally Posted by red-rose
No, but really.
I see the point of not making a list with a whole bunch of "No's," but I think in reality if you are having regular discipline issues (although if the discipline issues really are regular, and it's occurring from many different students, then perhaps it is more of a problem on the teacher's end?) but if it's not that, it's a lot easier to enforce a list of "Don't"'s (that ideally the student has already agreed upon?) by pointing out "you did this when you promised you wouldn't," instead of the more vague "just do what I say."
Wow, do people lack a sense of humor? Did you not see the silly wink emoticon? Sheesh.


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#2084228 - 05/17/13 03:00 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: Morodiene]  
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Still, there are 7 NOs and only 3 YESs on the list.

It's a little easier to do something than not do something. I think in the long run you're better off with a more positive sounding set of rules.

And yes, adults need rules too, and are rarely given them. I see it all the time when adults without a musical background enter lessons or various ensemble groups, and are unaware of the unwritten codes that govern behavior.


gotta go practice
#2084230 - 05/17/13 03:02 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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I have to add... it does amaze me the difference that I see in how children act at their lessons.
Two children in one family are extremely polite- they never play or talk while I'm talking, they don't flip the page when they can "sense" that we're getting ready to move on, they always say "thank you" after the lesson, etc; and of course I have also taught kids with complete opposite behaviors. They clearly aren't getting taught how behave and be in-general-polite at home, and it would be almost unfair to suddenly expect them to start behaving perfectly to my satisfaction, so giving them some written expectations might not be such a bad idea. It's just that you can't even expect basic politeness from some kids - there is such a contrast in what I see from different families, it's like you really do have to spell it out for them. The positive sentence "Be polite" would not mean anything to those kids who have not been taught *how* to be polite. Maybe they really do need a specific set of rules of what that entails.

/sorry, end rant about kids not being raise properly... crazy

#2084231 - 05/17/13 03:04 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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When working with young children:

1) Keep the rules simple, and the list of rules short (3 or 4 max).

2) State the rules positively (Do this) instead of negatively (Don't do this).

3) State a series of consequences, and follow through! Make sure the consequences have bite and not just some "empty threat."

The teacher is the adult in the situation, so draw up the boundaries and take charge!


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#2084233 - 05/17/13 03:06 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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Originally Posted by incomplete list
1. No whining.
2. No saying "I can't".
3. No rudeness, no swearing, treat your teacher with respect.
4. No banging on the piano. When piano lid is close, no elbow on piano! No throwing things.
5. Do not need to be a perfectionist! Everyone make mistakes, it is okay to make mistakes, I do not need to see your sour and angry face every time you make mistakes!
6. Bring all your note book, piano books, and theory books!
7. If you haven't practice, tell your teacher, then we can do something else rather than going through your songs.
8. Be open. Be willing to change. Even if you think your way is better or it's too hard to do something different, give it a try. Some things just take time.
9. Don't be defensive. You pay your teacher to give you help. Use it.
10. Don’t be angry when your teacher point out your mistakes. That is my job to tell you that you play wrong!
11. Answer your teacher’s question. If your teacher asks: “What is this note?” Answer her with your mouth, don’t play it on piano.
12. No interrupting. When your teacher is talking or playing for you, please watch and listen.
13. Play each note only one time, when your teacher says repeat that note, just play it one time, don’t play it ten times to show that you are angry.
14. Keep focused. Don't look at the clock and sigh. Don't say, "Do I have to play that again?"
15. Communicate. If you feel frustrated or confused, let the teacher know. You can avoid tears over some misunderstanding at the lesson if your teacher knows your feelings. Ask for help or a break.
16. Enjoy this special hour. When you learn something exciting, express your delight. Take pleasure in your lessons and your relationship with your teacher.
17. Be persistent. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is a good musician.
18. Be curious and develop your own opinions and style.
19. If you feel your teacher is too demanding or doesn't give you enough to work on, tell her. Work together to set goals and standards.
20. At competition, focus not only on the results but on the effort too. You can't win every time but you can always improve.
21. Before you decide to quit lessons, discuss your problems with the teacher. Give her a chance to accommodate your needs.
22. Remember the goal is not just to become a better pianist, but to become a better person through your music, through your discipline, through your persistent.


The list is not yet complete. I know it is getting longer. I wish I can learn from Morodine, with only one rule: "Do what I say" rule.

I do not need troll here in this forum. We are here to help each other, not to put each other down.
Thanks


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#2084236 - 05/17/13 03:10 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: Morodiene]  
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by red-rose
No, but really.
I see the point of not making a list with a whole bunch of "No's," but I think in reality if you are having regular discipline issues (although if the discipline issues really are regular, and it's occurring from many different students, then perhaps it is more of a problem on the teacher's end?) but if it's not that, it's a lot easier to enforce a list of "Don't"'s (that ideally the student has already agreed upon?) by pointing out "you did this when you promised you wouldn't," instead of the more vague "just do what I say."
Wow, do people lack a sense of humor? Did you not see the silly wink emoticon? Sheesh.

I was actually responding more to the third post on this thread, by (I think) keystring, which suggested using a list of what you do want them to do. I guess I just casually lumped together that suggestion (which you had quoted) with your joking one, which is what I ended up using in my example, but I think my example (which I quoted) still works with just about any "positive statement." Like, "You banged on the piano when you promised you wouldn't" has I think more affect (or effect?) than "you promised you would be polite but you banged on the piano."

And I actually do have a sense of humor. Apparently it's just my reading comprehension that stinks, but thanks for pointing that out. {eyeroll}

#2084243 - 05/17/13 03:17 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: red-rose]  
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Originally Posted by red-rose
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by red-rose
No, but really.
I see the point of not making a list with a whole bunch of "No's," but I think in reality if you are having regular discipline issues (although if the discipline issues really are regular, and it's occurring from many different students, then perhaps it is more of a problem on the teacher's end?) but if it's not that, it's a lot easier to enforce a list of "Don't"'s (that ideally the student has already agreed upon?) by pointing out "you did this when you promised you wouldn't," instead of the more vague "just do what I say."
Wow, do people lack a sense of humor? Did you not see the silly wink emoticon? Sheesh.

I was actually responding more to the third post on this thread, by (I think) keystring, which suggested using a list of what you do want them to do. I guess I just casually lumped together that suggestion (which you had quoted) with your joking one, which is what I ended up using in my example, but I think my example (which I quoted) still works with just about any "positive statement." Like, "You banged on the piano when you promised you wouldn't" has I think more affect (or effect?) than "you promised you would be polite but you banged on the piano."

And I actually do have a sense of humor. Apparently it's just my reading comprehension that stinks, but thanks for pointing that out. {eyeroll}
It was you and Polyphony that both posted in response to my joke so I got ticked off with everyone seeming to "jump all over me."

Anyways, I agree that having an agreement with each student is important, that way you can point out to them when they are behaving in a way that is counterproductive for learning and alos, if there's anything that the student requests of the teacher, that can also be accommodated to be fair.


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#2084246 - 05/17/13 03:21 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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In my view, there are two different lists going on here. One is part of the Studio Policy which is where piano lessons are discussed and certain understandings are reached (like don't break my piano). If a serious problem arises, we refer to our Studio Policy, signed by all parties, including student, to reach a decision.

The second list is in play at every lesson. Mine was originally created for special ed students and includes pictures. My simple list includes items such as the following. Note that it is just a few words. It could be reviewed at each lesson. One page, in color, which is set on the music stand at the beginning of the lesson, as needed.

Sit Quietly
Eyes On
Listen
Hands Down

etc.

#2084248 - 05/17/13 03:23 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: AZNpiano]  
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How would your list look like if you want to keep only 5 max in the list? Do you mind share, ANZ?

Thanks!


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#2084281 - 05/17/13 04:05 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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Originally Posted by ezpiano.org
How would your list look like if you want to keep only 5 max in the list? Do you mind share, ANZ?


1) Follow directions the first time given
2) Be prepared for each lesson



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#2084284 - 05/17/13 04:11 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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Follow directions the first time given

That "first time" is very important! Often I feel I am ten years older because I nag too much...ah....


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#2084298 - 05/17/13 04:24 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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Here's my list (which I only pull out for those students that need a little reminder of piano etiquette):

I will not play the piano while teacher is talking.

I will not interrupt the teacher when teacher is talking.

I will only play the piece I am instructed to play.

I will treat the piano gently - I will not bang on the piano.

I will use tissues when nose is running, and cough into my sleeve.

: )


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#2084299 - 05/17/13 04:25 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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I learned somewhere that the 2 rules for rules were to have three rules and to state them in the positive.
(Nevermind that the rule about 3 rules is violated by only having 2 rules for rules.) When my daughter was young, in order to have her friend over, we had to have rules that the friend was expected by her mother to obey. So we made up the HOUSE RULES:
1. Be kind.
2. Preserve wholeness. (later amended to "Promote wholeness")
3. Remember the rules.


For piano, I like Morodiene's rule!


Having power is not nearly as important as what you choose to do with it.
– Roald Dahl

#2084300 - 05/17/13 04:26 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: chasingrainbows]  
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Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
Here's my list (which I only pull out for those students that need a little reminder of piano etiquette):

I will not play the piano while teacher is talking.

I will not interrupt the teacher when teacher is talking.

I will only play the piece I am instructed to play.

I will treat the piano gently - I will not bang on the piano.

I will use tissues when nose is running, and cough into my sleeve.

: )


Good list.

Er, good student list.

What about a teacher list? <smiley>


gotta go practice
#2084304 - 05/17/13 04:31 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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I like to combine M and Anz list here into...
1.
Do what I say, the first time I say it, and all will work out well.

2.
Be prepared for each lesson

I think these are the most concise and easy rules!

I think we should ask students to come out the "teacher's lists".

So, if you are piano students here, please contribute what you expect your teachers to do for you in lesson.

Thanks!!


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#2084307 - 05/17/13 04:37 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: chasingrainbows]  
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Originally Posted by chasingrainbows
Here's my list (which I only pull out for those students that need a little reminder of piano etiquette):

I will not play the piano while teacher is talking.

I will not interrupt the teacher when teacher is talking.

I will only play the piece I am instructed to play.

I will treat the piano gently - I will not bang on the piano.

I will use tissues when nose is running, and cough into my sleeve.

: )

I like this list. I think it is a nice balance of "do" and "do not" statements. (In my personal opinion, the first two are an example of how it would be difficult to make a "positive" statement out of them - "be polite" might be too vague, but to my ear, a statement that gets a similar idea across, like "I will only play or talk when the teacher is not talking or when I am asked a question" is a little too wordy and even a bit confusing.)

#2084308 - 05/17/13 04:38 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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Originally Posted by ezpiano.org

I think we should ask students to come out the "teacher's lists".

So, if you are piano students here, please contribute what you expect your teachers to do for you in lesson.

Thanks!!


Here's a few too many:

Pay attention.
Provide specific and concrete instructions.
Set realistic expectations.
Acknowledge both effort and progress.
Maintain perspective and laugh sometimes.


Having power is not nearly as important as what you choose to do with it.
– Roald Dahl

#2084396 - 05/17/13 07:48 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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My daughter's classroom teacher has them recite this every morning:
We adhere to the Delano Code of Law which says the following:

I am Intelligent.
I am Talented.
I am Special.
I am Worth Loving.
I am Worth Forgiving.
I am a Gift.
I am Intrinsically Good.
I must Believe in Myself.
I will be My Own Best Friend.
I have Discipline.
I have Courage
I am Responsible.
I have Commitment.
I am a Winner.
I will Always Envision Success.

it's much more positive and covers the same themes.

#2084412 - 05/17/13 08:22 PM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
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Maggie, I love your list! I am going to copy it and have my student recite every week.
Thanks!


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#2084538 - 05/18/13 03:23 AM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
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Posts: 7,050
AZNpiano Offline
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AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,050
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by MaggieGirl
My daughter's classroom teacher has them recite this every morning:
We adhere to the Delano Code of Law which says the following:

I am Intelligent.
I am Talented.
I am Special.
I am Worth Loving.
I am Worth Forgiving.
I am a Gift.
I am Intrinsically Good.
I must Believe in Myself.
I will be My Own Best Friend.
I have Discipline.
I have Courage
I am Responsible.
I have Commitment.
I am a Winner.
I will Always Envision Success.

it's much more positive and covers the same themes.

Does your daughter go to a private or a public school? I'm surprised such recitations are allowed on a daily basis.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
#2084634 - 05/18/13 09:40 AM Re: Students' attitude list?? [Re: bzpiano]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 625
MaggieGirl Offline
500 Post Club Member
MaggieGirl  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 625
Public school. There is nothing objectionable with any of the code. They say it after the pledge (which is more objectionable since it mentions G-d). Why would a recitation be surprising? Her teacher works on character, the class is a family -we may not "like each other all the time" but since we are family we respect each other as well as social skills in addition to academics, physical education and music.

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