2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
69 members (benkeys, Burkhard, apianostudent, Bellyman, AlkansBookcase, accordeur, akse0435, Barry_Braksick, 11 invisible), 1,864 guests, and 300 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 141
R
Reno Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 141
As part its marking strategy, Steinway emphasises a lot on the following famous patents:

1) Accelerated Action; October 13, 1931 - Patent #1826848
2) Diaphragmatic Soundboard; August 18, 1936 - Patent #2051633
3) Hexagrip Pinblock; May 28, 1963 - Patent #3091149

I heard from some technicians that none of these patents are important. I would like to hear the export opinion about these patents.

Thanks

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,671
L
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,671
Of the three, I think the diaphragmatic soundboard is the most important.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,845
E
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,845
Greetings,

The patents are far more important as marketing tools than they are for performance. The soundboards were originally tapered by hand, with a plane, but are now machine sanded by a very large apparatus that makes them all the same,(there goes one factor in their much touted "individuality". ) The boards are very much a determinant in the sound of the piano.

The accelerated action refers to the acceleration of the key ratio through its stroke by its rotating on a curved surface. This works if the key is beginning its rotation centered on a point of the curve distal to its centerline. The effect is that the fulcrum (the contact point) moves towards the player (proximally) during its stroke, effectively losing leverage and gaining increased capstan speed during the rotation. The Steinway half-rounds were, to my knowledge, drilled with the hole slightly off set from center to accomplish this. It was important to install them properly aligned. The later parts were drilled in the middle, obviating the geometry that created this "gain ratio".

I was also informed by Bill Garlick, while he was at Steinway, that key leading was also part of the acceleration patent, and that Steinway had stopped following that design years before,effectively violating their own patent. I have never seen a pianist that could distinguish an accelerated action from another without. The same effect can be had by cutting 30% of the balance rail punching off and installing it so that the key rocks back onto the uncut portion.

The Hexagrip blocks are just a label. The earlier blocks, barring extreme climate exposure, were great. I tune numerous blocks that are 70-90 years old that are still viable. I will also restring an older block if it is still intact by chasing the holes with an appropriately prepared drill bit and installing 4/0 pins. I have many of these out in the clientele and it has proven to be a stable, long-term way to restring.

If a new board is going in, a new block is going in, but when the board is acceptable, (they usually don't live past 80 years), and the block undamaged, it saves the customer thousands. I don't do it to save myself time, since my reputation rides on every one of these things and I give a life-time warranty,(my life, not theirs). I have, in the past, gotten half way through a stringing job when I decided that the block was too weird and undid everything and replaced it. What a hassle, but it only happened once.

The modern blocks are something else. Eight years ago the restoration department sent us a D with untunable pins in the bottom four notes and wildly inconsistent torque throughout. A customer that had their 1880 concert grand restored at the factory 15 years ago has just seen the block collapse and crush the action rails, and in 1982, our one year old D at Vanderbilt had to have the bottom three holes plugged and redrilled because the block had failed. The latest ones I have tuned had torque readings well over 160 in/lbs on numerous pins, (this is totally unnecessary for tuning stability and makes fine tuning a real chore). The 1098 model is well known for tuning difficulty, and the pinning torque is far higher than needed.

Marketing is necessary to sell anything, but customers have, usually, a very thin grip on the realities they belie.
Regards,


Last edited by Ed Foote; 05/16/13 07:40 AM.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
O
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
The "concert caster brake" was also a very important patented design.

Very useful if the stage floor is not level wink

patenting anything seem to be a way of doing business, we have a very clear example with our beloved Monsanto (thanks for that guys !)




Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,326
K
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,326
Originally Posted by onlysteinway
As part its marking strategy, Steinway emphasises a lot on the following famous patents:

1) Accelerated Action; October 13, 1931 - Patent #1826848
2) Diaphragmatic Soundboard; August 18, 1936 - Patent #2051633
3) Hexagrip Pinblock; May 28, 1963 - Patent #3091149

I heard from some technicians that none of these patents are important. I would like to hear the export opinion about these patents.

Thanks


Ed has answered very well. The takeaway concept here is that you have design criteria (string must be held at tension) which are then solved by particular design solutions. (Tuning pin in multi-lam block). BUT, even though a particular design solution may be both effective and even elegant, it DOES NOT FOLLOW that that is the ONLY solution. (Eg. Wegman or Mason & Hamlin screw stringer.)

Marketing departments tout the effectiveness and elegance of the particular design features of their product. They never discuss the relative merits of that design feature compared to other solutions that have been established to work equally well. Another case in point is the vertical hitch pin introduced by Baldwin. It was ONE APPROACH to setting back bearing in a piano. It is effective and elegant. However, It is certainly not the only way to set bearing nor has it ever been demonstrated that pianos with bearing set in that fashion are superior in any way to pianos that use other approaches.

With S&S, soundboards were being tapered before their patent and many other makes of pianos taper their boards in one fashion or another. If I recall correctly, the S&S patent was on the tapering procedure -- not the fact of tapering itself. (Been a little while since I read their patent.)


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714
E
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714
If I had no financial limits, I would have that panel planer in my shop.

In my opinion, the significant Steinway patents important to tone are the ring bridge, duplex scale, and diaphragmatic.

I have a patent application pending for my Fully Tempered Duplex Scale which solves the problems with the past state of the art and fully explains all the things going on in the duplex.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060
Other significant Steinway patents are cross-stringing, the continuous rim, and the cupola plate.


Semipro Tech

Moderated by  Piano World, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New DP for a 10 year old
by peelaaa - 04/16/24 02:47 PM
Estonia 1990
by Iberia - 04/16/24 11:01 AM
Very Cheap Piano?
by Tweedpipe - 04/16/24 10:13 AM
Practical Meaning of SMP
by rneedle - 04/16/24 09:57 AM
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,390
Posts3,349,260
Members111,633
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.