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Joined: May 2013
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Hello everyone! Just found a great forum here and I have been reading a lot of posts. I'm looking for a baby grand (6' or less) with a performance-grade sound quality. I play classical music, mostly works from Schumann, Chopin and Debussy. Melodic singing and colorful tone is a priority.
I've auditioned a number of tier 1-3 pianos but having a really hard time to decide. I understand that a brand famous for its 9' does not necessarily also offer superior 5'. Budget is not an issue but I don't want to pay big bucks just because of the brand or overall reputation.
What's your opinion on which piano manufacturer offers the best "baby" grand? I'm constrainded by the size not price.
Thank you for your suggestions!
Roy
PS: I have a YAMAHA at home and didn't quite like it.
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Hmmm... it's such an individual choice I'd be hesitant to say what to get. Also, given the variability from instrument to instrument that a high-level player and listener can perceive, it would be hard to pin things down to one model. You do make a good point that some makers are more successful than others at making pianos this size (as opposed to concert grands), so I'm curious to see what recommendations you get in the sub-6' size from forum members.
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Hello everyone! Just found a great forum here and I have been reading a lot of posts. I'm looking for a baby grand (6' or less) with a performance-grade sound quality. I play classical music, mostly works from Schumann, Chopin and Debussy. Melodic singing and colorful tone is a priority.
I've auditioned a number of tier 1-3 pianos but having a really hard time to decide. I understand that a brand famous for its 9' does not necessarily also offer superior 5'. Budget is not an issue but I don't want to pay big bucks just because of the brand or overall reputation.
What's your opinion on which piano manufacturer offers the best "baby" grand? I'm constrainded by the size not price. The Walter 175 (5' 9") grand was designed for just this purpose. A high-performance piano, nicely built using excellent parts and materials and designed for smaller spaces. It is several inches narrower than most pianos of its length and the shape of the rim is more slender and aesthetically less dominate. They are hard to find at dealers but, if cost is not a major criteria, it might be worth a trip to the factory (in So. Bend, Indiana) to try one. ddf
Delwin D Fandrich Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant ddfandrich@gmail.com (To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)
Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
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Roy Roy - Welcome to Piano World!
All of the Tier One builders produce superb instruments. It doesn't matter what we like, it is what you like that is the most important. You can't go wrong with any of them.
Take your time. Play as many as you can. Be patient until a particular piano announces that it is the one. Remember, even identical instruments from the same builder can be totally different. Find as many dealerships, who handle the elite instruments, as you can.
As far as referring to concert grands, some builders are much more focused on building smaller instruments than the 9 footers and you aren't looking for a piano of that size anyway. Don't even give it a thought.
BWT - A piano in the size you are looking for is not a "baby." That would refer to the smallest grand built by any given company. It is a poor term which really means nothing.
If you might consider stretching the length up to about 6'4", you open yourself into a world of spectacular pianos. You know the names, all you need to do is become acquainted with them on a personal basis. Even at less than six feet, they all excel.
Have fun and keep us posted.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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I am rather happy with my Shigeru Kawai SK-2, but a number of others come to mind when cost is no big issue. I played a beautiful Bluethner Model 10 (164 cm), and there is the August Foerster 170. Even Boesendorfer has two small grands in its range (170cm and, a recent addition, 155cm) but I have not played them.
Edit: So far I have not come across a Steinway below model A that impressed me but that may be a coincidence.
Last edited by maurus; 05/15/13 05:42 PM.
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
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Since my first reply, I've been contemplating this further. For a piano under six feet, my first choice would be Steingraeber, followed by S&S-Hamburg. But, there are so many that one's head spins!
In reality, I would probably go with an American S&S-0.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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WOW! Thank you so much everyone!
To maurus: I am definitely going to try out the smaller Shigeru Kawai. Waiting for the dealer to get shipments.
To Minnesota Marty: S&S New York seems to be great. However I tried a few much less expensive competitors such as Estonia and it sounded just about as amazing as S&S. It was hard to compare as I played on them on different days. I know many people chose Estonia instead of S&S. I also saw one poster said that he would choose a small Mason & Hamlin over a small S&S at any time.
I wanted to know if price is less of an issue would that choice (i.e., Estonia/M&H > S&S) still holds true for them?
Last edited by Roy Roy; 05/15/13 04:20 PM.
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I know many people chose Estonia instead of S&S. We just had three in a row. They all chose same piano: 5'6 Estonia 160. Sorry, 168... Norbert
Last edited by Norbert; 05/16/13 01:15 AM.
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I absolutely love the Estonia-190, however the Estonia-160 would not be my choice. Del mentioned the Walter-175. Again, it is the bigger brother which really comes into its own.
Under six feet, I would still go with the Steinway-0, but my ear would also lead me to the Mason-A and Steingraeber-A170. But, of course, that is just my preference.
As I said before, all of the tier one pianos are great instruments. It is your ears, fingers, and checkbook which matter most. The price range is quite wide as you have seen, but in that range, the shopper is not necessarily looking for a bargain. The value of the piano is what the piano will bring to you, not how much you paid for it.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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I know many people chose Estonia instead of S&S. We just had three in a row. They all chose same piano: 5'6 Estonia 160. Norbert 160 cm is about 5'3".
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I know many people chose Estonia instead of S&S. We just had three in a row. They all chose same piano: 5'6 Estonia 160. Norbert 160 cm is about 5'3". Norbert misspoke - it is 168cm.
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Some one needs to know his business better:)
PLEYEL P124
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I love it when someone just asks for your opinion, and costs doesn't really matter. Of course, my opinion isn't worth much if the piano doesn't grab you.
Try them all under 6' and have fun doing it...BUT... you must try the small Steingraeber before making a decision. I believe its 5'7" or so. I haven't tried the small Bluthners or Forsters, and would love to play a Hamburg S&S, but I've played the others and then some. IMO the Steingraeber is in a class of its own. If you end up with a sub 6', and you want one of the best out there, you owe it to yourself to find one. And the composers you mentioned sound just great on that Steingraeber.
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I use to say the best under 6' grand Ive played was the Mason Hamlin A. That changed after playing the shortest Steingraeber grand. Nothing I've come across in that size category compares to it. Sadly the M&H A falls to number 2 in my book.
Rich
Retired at the beach Grotrian 192
Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"
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There are some recent advances in scale design elements that rebuilders are using in small grands that no manufacturer offers.
One that is now spreading thru-out the piano technical community is stringing the piano with a blend of different wire types that helps moderate and even eliminate objectionable ringing sounds that the low tension strings of small pianos are very prone to suffer from. This stringing method is referred to as Hybrid Wire Scales. If you can find rebuilders who know how to apply these ideas you can get an amazing sounding small grand that would compare very well and probably exceed any new small grands available today.
Of course the rebuilder must have superb workmanship and be capable of tone-regulation at the highest standards.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
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Rob Roy,
Are you considering a used piano, as Mr. McMorrow seems to recommend, or are you interested in a top quality new piano?
When having a piano rebuilt, you are trusting a single individual or a shop to give you exactly what you want. When buying new, you are choosing exactly what you want.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Joined: Sep 2003
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There are some recent advances in scale design elements that rebuilders are using in small grands that no manufacturer offers.
One that is now spreading thru-out the piano technical community is stringing the piano with a blend of different wire types that helps moderate and even eliminate objectionable ringing sounds that the low tension strings of small pianos are very prone to suffer from. This stringing method is referred to as Hybrid Wire Scales. If you can find rebuilders who know how to apply these ideas you can get an amazing sounding small grand that would compare very well and probably exceed any new small grands available today. Another option, of course, is to design the piano in a way that doesn't use strings with very low tensions. ddf
Delwin D Fandrich Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant ddfandrich@gmail.com (To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)
Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
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Thank you, Mr. McMorrow. To Marty, I'm more leaning towards new pianos. I have no knowledge in the technical details and it would be very hard to make a good judgement. I might also have to factory-order a piano if the dealer doesn't have the right size (in this case, I have to try a different size and have my finger crossed).
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Joined: May 2013
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There are some recent advances in scale design elements that rebuilders are using in small grands that no manufacturer offers.
One that is now spreading thru-out the piano technical community is stringing the piano with a blend of different wire types that helps moderate and even eliminate objectionable ringing sounds that the low tension strings of small pianos are very prone to suffer from. This stringing method is referred to as Hybrid Wire Scales. If you can find rebuilders who know how to apply these ideas you can get an amazing sounding small grand that would compare very well and probably exceed any new small grands available today. Another option, of course, is to design the piano in a way that doesn't use strings with very low tensions. ddf Is there any manufacturer does that? Sorry for my ignorance...
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None that I know of.
Another advantage to the Hybrid Wire Scales are that more of the unisons can be fit with trichord strings-and more of the overstrung section can be bi-chords instead of singles.
Since the multiple unison strings couple at the bridge-more trichords and less singles brings a deeper, warmer, richer, more dynamic sounding soundboard/string structure.
Many of the small pianos in todays market have over an octave of single string unisons in the overstrung section and run wound bi-chords high up into the scale. The tone is simply less piano like with these arrangements.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
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