Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum only up! Tuning hammer technique maxim_tuner ( from9 by 12 )

No problem. No offense meant om this side either

-Joe

rxd good message.Any practice, even if it's false is entitled to their existence and public discussion

Dont you think we developp the ability to compare the pressure on the opposite side of the lever handle, and that allow us to read all motion happening in the pin ?

The thumb push up the pin also to lighten the pressure on its "bed" . slighly changing the plane orientation of the rotation is also part of it.

Tuners need to develop a lot of tactility in their wrist and their fingers (the palm of the hand as used in bowl shaped handles, seem to have way less possibilities, anyway for me)

That is, immediately to find and put the right tone ( sound) without subsequent lowering if say be the flat without

Isaac, I think you may be referring to "ball", not "bowl".

When the wrist is tired, it is possible to use a different combination of fingers. Including the thumb under the the lever. A wrist, like a fist is a working tuner's instrument gives a help basic. Sometimes the motion is fairly soft and we used pinky only

Here russian technician. He keep a lever by left
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-ygitPdbAM&feature=share&list=PLE240C91854A9F9E6

Thanks, Max. Very magnanimous of you. If you hadn't shared your wisdom by starting this thread, none of this would be written about. I, too am a believer in freedom of speech and thought.

Max does not enforce his own idea. It's also can not be characterized as wisdom. It's as Max's cogitations . However, (9-12) is just one of the ways of tuning. To reject (9-12) we need serious evidence of insolvency. Unfortunately I have not heard it's here

I note your change of heart, Max on many things.

Your posts bring out more information than most on this forum. Your past attitude has been instrumental in encouraging this. I might miss it.
I was one of the few who had faith in you and was severely castigated for it, here and elsewhere. One though I was a social worker or something because in their world it was unheard of to offer support to a fellow human being.

I have been accused of some elitism and "high horse", etc.

There have been many experiences I have had that give me insights. One of the most important is tuning the same piano 3-4 times in the same day. Of course it would be entirely stupid to retune the whole piano each time, so why this often?I have mentioned elsewhere that it is a form of insurance where the concert promoters can afford to go first class.

Although the majority of my work now is at least twice the same day. This can be readily understood because how often are we asked to tune a piano immediately prior to a concert and the piano is below pitch? (and the noisy audience is already coming in) There are those who promote concerts who think this way. Two tunings on concert day should be bare minimum. One full tuning to slightly above pitch and a final check before the concert. A piano can lose pitch, particularly in the middle sections, the treble and bass usually stay put, but you don't want to be changing the pitch much just before a concert. You will realise why we do what we do.

Much of the time there is little to do but it is good insurance. Sometimes there is everything to do, particularly with pianos that have been brought in for the occasion and are still adapting to the different atmosphere.

My point is this, by constantly checking over your own work, you can't help but become a finer and finer tuner. Pianos do drift short term woth movement of the wooden componemts and it is a good education to know the patterns this forms. We develop better tuning habits because we see immediately the results. Avoiding the temptation to flex the pin for that last little bit? I know that I will pay later if I do so I turn the pin that last infinitesimal amount. Franz Mohr says to always turn the pin. Good enough for me.

Anyway, my point is this. It is not necessarily the province of only those doing the highest class of work, any tuner can select a piano they have regular access to and give themselves this experience and I highly recommend it. For example, tune a piano just before a large party in a small room. Then check it over the next morning even if it has not been played. All those heaving bodies in one room will have an effect and give you some idea of a concert situation. Most of the time there's nothing to do but as you become a finer tuner, and there's room for improvement in all of us, you will be amazed at the small movements in the course of just a few hours and realise the value of a solid technique. You cannot control the way the piano drifts but you will observe patterns in the tuning drift. The ideal is to have nothing left to do just before a concert but the finer the tuning and the more conciencious the tuner, the more you will find. At that point there's a sense develops of what is best left alone that the presence of the audience will change.

pin setting is light on that case , when realised.

Isaac,do you think that that of setting a pin is flippant? Is it deprived common sense?

I am very grateful for you. rxd, sorry for any condemnation of others . many people here are set aggressively against me. however, only here I can get a critique and correct their own ignorance and our own mistakes . "
On the Russian forum "Classic" I was deprived account for more than two years ago. But today, every day, write all sorts of abominations about Max. They make a clips in my address. Here one Moskow tuner madea clip. The clip name "durilka." “Decoy”.
http://youtu.be/WvJBfnfqKMo

It shows a mocking manner of harm corrugated cardboard shim. God will judge him! He posted the clip in the Piano's tuner technicians. Theme " How tuners deceiving the people."
http://www.forumklassika.ru/showthread.php?t=55328&page=10

-видите, как красиво!......ой, не настроено ещё!.....выше надо тянуть....вот она, наша "до"! /нашёл-таки!!! ура!!!/....если у вас колок не хочет строить, единственно возможный способ его спасти и продлить жизнь вашему инструменту- это запрессовка при помощи гАфрокартона....поэтому запрессовывайте свои колки при помощи гАфрокартона обычного, который ничего не стоит, и у вас будет хороший строй.....
Да уж, блеснул косноязычием и полным невежеством в настройщицком ремесле!
Дурилка картонная!



But I did not cheat, I just treat the piano as I see fit.

No it just could be less bent and more firmly set, so the tuning hold more long.

Also the position used is the one good to raise the pitch, to set the pin the lever facing string is the way to go .

As the tuner on the video does not make test , he cannot know if his tuning is holding, and he cannot know if he is precise as he does not test intervals. It is just a rough tuning as can be done to pitch raise, but done as the final work with a fast and uneven pin setting on some notes, justness is obtained just by pin bending on other.

The lever position is the same I could use to raise the tension on a grand, (intention : feeling what is the maximum twist the pin accepts ; second intention : work a pin made stiffer and more reactive by twisting it somehow.)

Later, when the pin release of those manipulations it is in position and sort of auto grip in the tuning pin hole (I suspect)

But the setting have to be tested, just leaving the pin and expecting it to stay put is counting on luck.

Max it is hard, but comprehensive, as you give lessons to others while you dis not have any formal training yourself, this is somewhat chocking to the ones that made the effort to listen to explanations, and learned a standard method (or another).

When you will begin to make things in the good order, your ability to tune a piano will developp. As long you do not your progress will be limited (as the tuner of the video that did not learn how to test his tuning, for instance, because he learned with a very old method that did not incluede tests)

That said tuning only 5ths and 4ths provide some consistency , in time hence some musicality even if minimal.

Perhaps Max need return to the banal teaching of music a kids and to forget about what he said here?

Quote:
It shows a mocking manner of harm corrugated cardboard shim. God will judge him! He posted the clip in the Piano's tuner technicians. Theme " How tuners deceiving the people."

This does go too far. I agree with Maximillyan. The worst thing I can see happening with the use of a cardboard shim is that the pin still does not tighten up sufficiently. Either it will work in a specific instance, or it will not work. But, I do not think that trying it can really do any harm. The pin is already failing.

The worst criticism could be that it is an old method that has been replaced by newer methods.

The most important thing is to check how tight the surrounding pins are after inserting the cardboard shim. If the other tuning pins in the area become looser, then there is possibly a crack in the tuning pin block. In that case, you do not want to keep adding shims to other holes because this will just keep opening the split wider and wider. As long as the surrounding pins are checked to make sure that they are not loosing tightness, I think the shim method is perfectly safe.

Although it is considered controversial by some on this forum, C/A/ glue might be the better choice. It will tighten the hole. But, it will also tend to add some strength back to the pinblock if it is splitting.

daniokeeper,thanks for the kind words. "pin is still not enough to pull" this is not entirely true. In some cases it is necessary to use either 3mm and 4-5mm shim for fixing. I also believe that the cardboard shim can not be significantly harming for oldest piano. I completely agree with you that if there are cracks in pinblock it will not help. This I see in my personal practice.

Interestingly, CA glue for tightening pins was considered radical and crazy not all that long ago, while now it's accepted.

I agree with Joe. I don't really see how using a cardboard shim is any worse than using a piece of sandpaper. Obviously we're talking about pianos that are not of the quality to warrant restringing, repinning, or rebuilding.

If I had to choose between someone who innovates and tries new, untried methods (like CA glue once was) and someone who sits on the sidelines and offers ridicule, like some here do, I'd have to say I choose the former.

Max, if you believe in what you're doing, stick to it.

Thank you Maximillyan,

I was simply speculating about the worst possible outcome... that even if it did not work, it would do no harm.

Don’t pay any attention to what they write about you. Just measure it in inches.
-Andy Warhol

Just in case this did not translate correctly... It is not so important whether or not they criticize you. What is important is how much they write about you. You are relevant.

Edit: Maximillyan, I have heard of you. I have never heard of any of these tuners that criticized you.. I know of you; I don't know of them.