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While I don't always agree with what Ed says, his work does speak for itself. They are high-quality rebuilds, to be sure!

Better than what is produced by the builders I mentioned?

I'm not swayed by blanket statements. There are other fine re-builders who produce exceptional products, but you need to have an instrument to start with.

I would like to hear the proof of his claim in competition with the world's greatest pianos. Maybe Mr. McMorrow could set a new standard if he built pianos.

Ed, with all due respect, it is not my opinion that the problem is the Teflon bushings, it was my uncle's. All I can tell you is that he pulled the action out, unscrewed a few of the hammer/shank/hammer butt assemblies and watched them swing in his hand (or not swing as was the case). That doesn't mean I disagree with you, I don't know squat, but that is what he did and he drew his conclusions from that test. As you know, the hammer butt and shank are joined with said Teflon bushing and there was no freedom of motion when he let the hammer drop. He did mention other problems with the setup but did not go into detail since he wants to put in new parts, not refurbishing the old.

Please tell me about these WNG parts. If I wanted it original, I'd leave the Teflon parts, I just want the best possible piano I can afford. I haven't bought the Steinway parts yet so it is not to late to consider other options. I am a pianist, not a technician, so I don't pretend to know what's best for this instrument. I just know that right now, the piano is not fun to play but I believe it could be. Thanks for the input!

Ahhhh, sorry, I do know what those are. The action made of composite material, right? Do people across the board feel good about those now, or is that more of a personal preference? I'm open to them but I've never played a piano with that action yet. Cheers,

Wessell, Nickel & Gross is an established action manufacturer and held in high regard. Recently they have introduced composite actions which are now used in Mason & Hamlin pianos. They are similar to the actions developed by Kawai. They are now proven and are the choice of many fine rebuilders.

http://consumer.wessellnickelandgross.com/

I am considering the rebuild of one of my Steinways and am giving strong consideration to using the WNG action. They are exceptional and more stable in regulation than many others. Technicians have high praise for them.

Hope this helps.

The W,N&G parts I use are the hammer-shank and flange, capstan, and backcheck. The smaller shank diameter makes it much easier to taper the sides of the hammer which helps open the tone and increase action response. I don't like the other W,N&G parts enough to use them, however I am sure they would produce excellent results in the hands of a skilled rebuilder.

I dislike the stainless bridge pins and strongly urge everyone to not put them in a piano. The American standard copper plated mild steel pins sound better. I have done the A to B comparison.

My 1966 Hamburg B had the bass strings replaced 15 years ago. Other than that it is original. It has, however, been meticulously serviced and maintained by a marvellous technician.

Here's a "history" of WNG that I found on the internet.

"In 1874, Wessell, Nickel & Gross was founded by three experienced manufacturers of piano actions, namely Otto Wessell, Adam Nickel and Rudolph Gross.

Very quickly, the company acquired the reputation of selling a superior product.

At that time, WNG supplied many well-known piano manufacturers, such as Mason & Hamlin, Julius Bauer, Gabler... In subsequent years, the company grew steadily. WNG was renowned worldwide for its products of superior quality.

During the Depression, WNG got into financial problems, resulting in the takeover of the company by the Aeolian Piano Corporation. As of that moment, the WNG products were only used in the production of Aeolian. As a result, there were no further deliveries to other piano manufacturers.
Unfortunately, after the takeover by the Aeolian Piano Corporation, the quality of the WNG products suffered.

As of 1953, the name WNG was abandoned until 2005 when the brothers Burgett acquired the brand. The brothers worked hard to restore the original ideals, innovation and quality for which the initial founders of WNG were renowned.They therefore hope their efforts will ensure that the name WNG will regain its worldwide status of superior quality products.

Today, WNG stands for durable piano components, which are less susceptible to wear and tear due to the composite materials they are made of, such as carbon and nylon, amongst others. Furthermore, these materials prove more resistant to extreme conditions, such as high humidity for instance.
In parallel, the Burgett brothers supplemented the assortment with tools specifically designed to complement the WNG mechanical parts. Here again, they upheld the same ideals of quality, durability and innovation."

Per the above description, I was under the impression that WNG had been defunct for many years and that the Burgett brothers acquired the WNG name in 2005 and have been applying it to the new composite actions used in M&H pianos. Is WNG a separate company from M&H (as the website would imply) or is it part of M&H (as per my understanding)???????

Greetings,
The composite parts from WNG are, in my opinion, are vastly superior to wooden parts for several reasons. The first is consistency, there is no way to machine wood to the tolerances or consistency of glass reinforced, injection molded, nylon. The second is the resistance to humidity changes, so the traveling and spacing stay where you put them. The third is the hard bushings allow a very low friction while maintaining control of the swing that a felt bushing cannot approach.
The hammer shanks all behave the same, which wood will never do, and the backcheck system allows a set backcheck distance to remain the same, regardless of the force of the blow. That the geometry, in terms of knuckle and capstan pads, can be varied so much is an added bonus for those of us that like to obviate factory variability. The capstans, with their virtually frictionless, non-oxidizing coating and lighter weight all contribute to durability and response.
I am a traditional-minded person, and I was taught by others that were like minded, (Bill Garlick and David Betts), but they always encouraged us to try everything before we made up our minds on something. I have tried wooden parts for 33 years, and have seen their shortcomings. I have been putting the WNG parts in ultra heavy use pianos and there is NO comparison. There has been some talk about the sound of the carbon fiber shanks being different, but any difference is so much less than the range of response from various hammers that I consider that to be of no measurable consequence.
WNG parts give the tech the choice between tradition and performance, and since 90% of my customers are professional pianists, I will take performance every time.
I am not employed by WNG, nor do I get a discount on parts. I am just overjoyed that the work of alignment is no longer so perishable as it was with wood, and that my regulations are so much more durable.
Regards,

I quite believe Ed McMorrow is able to produce a better result than a new manufacture piano, because he will have more time per instrument to make sure everything is set properly. The rebuilding workshops tend to offer more customization than new builds. Consider that it costs about as much to rebuild as it does to buy a complete kawai rx2 or 3, and the work is going in at the finishing stages of the piano - the rim and frame are already there.

Yes, workmanship is at least 50% of the improvement. For example when re-capping bridges I go over the pattern of string lengths and spacing to optimize treble lengths and eliminate spacing conflicts between front and back bridge pins.

That said though: chamfering agraffes, V-profiling the capo bar, and installing; Patent Pending Fully Tempered Duplex Scale, hybrid wire scale, LightHammer tone regulation, and teflon heat-shrink tubing on front rail pins all contribute significantly to the musical utility and durability of my rebuilt pianos. No new pianos have these features or equal durability. Every one of my pianos is musically useable from note 1 to 88 and none of them have a nasal tone and very few have any notes with obvious longitudinal mode issues.

Mr. McMorrow,

Have you considered taking out a paid ad at Piano World, rather than using this forum to peddle your products and skills?

He's doing nothing that none of the other rebuilders or piano dealers on here do from time to time. Perhaps some may think he's being overly boastful, but he is highly accomplished and deserves to be taken seriously.

Speaking as a moderator here…

Self promotion on Piano World… Hey, we’ve all done it in some form or fashion, whether deliberately or inadvertently.

In regards to Ed McMorrow’s comments in this thread, while they do seem somewhat like advertisement on the surface, which Ed has been guilty of in the past, I don’t see his comments as blatant advertising, albeit close.

Ed, if you would, please tone down the self promotion a bit… I’m sure you are a good rebuilder.

And, I think Marty’s suggestion that you consider buying a PW ad from Frank Baxter is a good idea.

Rickster

Hi Marty,

I didn't realize this was an ongoing "thing". So please let me lend some more perspective. Since Ed McMorrow can't say anything more, I feel obligated to.

Since you (or hardly anybody on this thread) haven't played any of Ed's pianos, the skepticism and even criticism being heaped on him is rather unfair. Now, I'm certain Ed has no problems saying how good his instruments or his skills actually are, and that can be very grating. I can understand that. After all, the proof of the pudding, etc., right?

So just how good was the eating here? Well, Ed's "dog B" actually sounded like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRgHM8Ax1PQ&list=FLuicr1wggQsQ5Yjl_ro0zmg&index=5

To be clear, this is not Ed's B. Rather, it's the perfect example of a good demo recordings for a rebuilt instrument, an 1899 D from a rebuilder in New York. The reason I like it is because this is what people expect an American Steinway to sound like, with that dark, growling bass, huge dynamic range, bell-like singing treble all the way to the top, and a gorgeous, warm tenor register. Not only does the pianist give an excellent performance of an extremely difficult Rachmaninoff etude, she and the piece really show off what the instrument can do. And the instrument proves itself to be exceptional.

In basic timbre and dynamic response, Ed's B matched this rebuilt 1899 "D" exceptionally closely. Oh, I'm sure that D is capable of a bigger sound, but in the characteristic tone color and those wonderful, singing colors in the treble, the especially interesting and beautiful decay there, it was almost an exact match. Not to mention that there was a comparatively long sustain and pitch clarity all the way up to and including the very top note. The action was wonderfully responsive. Trills and repeated notes come out very easily and consistently, dynamic colors were very easy to control. Projection was amazing in every register. Resonance overall was exceptional. It was more Steinway than Steinway, and you can't say that hardly ever about modern instruments.

Which is a problem that I'm sure we can all agree on. Modern, post-WWII Steinways don't sound much like this anymore unless they come from Hamburg, and not all of those are equally wonderful as Joe has pointed out. The Bs from the CBS days are consistently awful, and almost universally acknowledged as such by the people who have to play on them. Very few technicians can rebuild them into something useable.

Which is why I was so impressed with Ed's B. Brand new, that piano never sounded as good as it does now. If we had gone over to the Steinway franchise showroom in Seattle right after, we couldn't have found an instrument on their showroom floor that would have sounded as good, or even matched the stereotypical qualities well.

So Marty, all I'm really saying is try not to sling any mud until you've played the piano. After that, sling all you want.

Just to be clear: I only met Ed for the first time two days ago. He is not paying me to shill for him. We have no professional relationship, other than that I hope I can raise the money to get him to do his tricks on my M&H.

What I played on the instrument: snippets from the Beethoven 4th concerto, Mozart K. 330, Bach fugue in c minor, various Liszt things, Chopin Berceuse, and Schumann Kinderszenen, about 35 minutes.

If I ever go back to Ed's shop, and he says it's OK, I'll make a recording so you can ll hear what I'm talking about.

I think you're totally missing the point.

The problem or question is not how good his pianos are or are not. It's the fact that on this thread and many, many others he has lauded his own pianos and posted as if he is the greatest and most knowledgeable rebuilder in history and that others are deficient. Even if he is the best rebuilder on the planet, these posts strike me as arrogant, and I have felt this way for a long but not written anything about it thus far. Most people who are incredibly good at something don't have to constantly brag about it.

You think I don't know that?

Feel free to dislike him all you want. You have my permission to do so, and everybody else's I'm sure. I never said you had to kiss him!

But until you've played his pianos, your musical and technical criticisms are worthless. None of us are interested in what you think about him personally.

I made no musical or technical criticisms of him.

You may think my personal criticism of him is of no interest but the moderator and Marty have already said, before I made my post, basically the same thing I did. You also left out in your quote my mention of his continual self lauding/promotion together with his criticism of others...the very reasons for my description of his posts as arrogant.

Perhaps, but it's a small price to pay for the knowledge he has. Personally, I find the etiquette police far more annoying. Seriously, if people have a problem with someone, perhaps that should be dealt with PMs from now on. Making a big deal about this just makes it worse.

L. Greg,

Thank you, but I don't need a lesson on how a Steinway sounds, or should sound. Your lesson doesn't even need to be shared about most of the brands of instruments available, as I play them often.

I totally agree with Pianoloverus, it is the arrogance of Mr. McMorrow which I find distasteful. There are many rebuilders who post here, or are not even members, who are of equal skill and ability. Some would be considered to be even more masterful.

Here is my comment which triggered all of this.


Have you played the instruments I used as reference? Many in this forum, including me, would take issue with such a blanket statement.

How would you rate the single rebuild by Mr. McMorrow in comparison to Steingraebers, Walters, Estonias, and Sauters? Do you think that they build instruments of lesser quality?