2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
42 members (36251, Doug M., Davidnewmind, Dfrankjazz, brdwyguy, busa, benkeys, Burkhard, David Boyce, 6 invisible), 1,092 guests, and 255 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 788
R
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 788
Originally Posted by Phil D
Roy, if you haven't already, consult an osteopath or a chiropractor.


Thanks Phil. I do go to a chiropractor once a month. I also see a massage therapist every other week. It definitely helps. But, it never really goes away, either.

Right now I have lots of shop work backed up, and will try to shift gears. I take care of two universities, and they are both out of classes after this week. So tuning obligations will lighten up. I will try to spend more time in the shop. I have thought about just not doing any tunings for a couple months. Somehow, that never works out. When I block off days, or even a week at a time, I don't stick to it and end up tuning half the time. It's just hard to say no.


Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,713
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,713
There is a folk remedy for medical treatment of hand. Need to comb out the dog's wool and make of it's a woolen yarn. The yarn can not be washed. Then knit dog's wool stocking. To wearing this stocking on his injured hand at night.
Be all healthy

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
R
rXd Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
Because the symptoms only show in piano tuning doesn't necessarily mean that the condition was caused by piano tuning. Some of the symptoms described here can be the result of a whole range of bodily conditions that are not caused by the presenting symptoms.

It is important to get a thorough checkup.

It would help to demonstrate to a chiropractor, osteopath or Alexander teacher the postures we choose to adopt in tuning various pianos. They can help with minor changes (in foot position, for example). Standing at uprights without shoes can help as can something as simple as not putting a wallet in a back trouser pocket when sitting. SittIng on even the edge of a wallet for extended periods will distort the spine.


Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


rXd #2076451 05/03/13 06:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,671
L
Loren D Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,671
Originally Posted by rxd
Because the symptoms only show in piano tuning doesn't necessarily mean that the condition was caused by piano tuning. Some of the symptoms described here can be the result of a whole range of bodily conditions that are not caused by the presenting symptoms. (cut)




Yes of course that could very well be true, but the condition definitely improves over the weekend when I'm not tuning. I usually take Fridays off, so by the time Sunday night rolls around, the hand is feeling pretty good. By about the second tuning on Monday, that's when it starts flaring up again. When it's at its worst, my middle fingertip feels numb even when just playing the piano. Anyway, I'm confident I'll get it improved and healed with the right course of action and treatment. smile

In the meantime though, I did want to make others in the trade aware and give them some food for thought, so they don't wind up in the same boat.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
rXd #2076463 05/03/13 07:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 788
R
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 788
Originally Posted by rxd
Standing at uprights without shoes can help as can something as simple as not putting a wallet in a back trouser pocket when sitting. Sitting on even the edge of a wallet for extended periods will distort the spine.


You're right. My chiropractor warned me about sitting on a wallet some years ago. I never keep a wallet in my back pocket now. It makes sense. You end up sitting crooked all the time, especially all those miles we drive in a car.


Roy Peters, RPT
Cincinnati, Ohio
www.cincypiano.com
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
Loren,

Hope you get well soon. A couple of months ago I was experiencing debilitating pain in my right hand - the thumb tendon specifically. It was scary, and I had to stop tuning for several days. Tuning with both hands, taking Ibuprofen, stretching, and changing tuning techniques alleviated the problem. I also think a lot of the problem was my heavy wheeled toolcase which was like pulling a freight train - the wheels were too small and they wore out on NYC sidewalks, Now I have a lighter wheeled case with bigger wheels and I use my left hand much more to drag it around.

I learned how to tune left-handed three years ago and recently I have been tuning much more of the piano that way, not just the high treble. That has definitely helped. And, I recently started using the Charles Faulk key striker when I'm using an ETD:
http://www.faulkpiano.com/SpecialtyTools/ and I think it's amazing. Of course, when you tune aurally, it doesn't work. But you can use it when tuning outside strings of a unison, which adds up to a lot of strings. It also takes your stability to a new level. There's simply no way bare fingers can apply that much force to a key.

I also started using the Levitan C-shaped lever on a daily basis and that has been the true game changer. It has made a tremendous difference, especially on new pianos with tight tuning pins, using a completely different hand position and technique from the traditional lever. It does the work for you, and initial pin setting stability seems to be unmatched from using a traditional lever. I'll be writing more on that in the appropriate thread soon, after I've tuned 100 pianos with it.

When I studied piano at CalArts in the 80s I took a class in Alexander Technique and have applied those principles to my playing over the years with great success. rxd has a great point mentioning little things like sitting unevenly on a wallet. Alexander technique is all about nurturing that self-awareness - a reawakening of the kinetic sense of the human body to do what comes naturally for an infant. I never have pain from playing anymore, even if I'm woodshedding for 6 or 7 hours at a time. But this tech biz is a whole other thing - anything we can do to minimize impact, and distribute it more evenly, is essential. I don't think we realize the true extent of how hard this trade is on our bodies!


Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
O
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
I thought that those impact levers did avoid any of those troubles.

Anyway, working is always a suffering for the body, I prefer to tune, repair and regulate pianos, it is quieter .

I hope you will be better and find ways that protect your body.

Btw a good chiropractor tunes your bone as we regulate a grand piano , point by point, ..very cool and really useful each ...month, 3 monthes, whatever.

Last edited by Olek; 05/03/13 10:51 AM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 270
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by James Carney
I don't think we realize the true extent of how hard this trade is on our bodies!


And then, some of us DO !

Good ideas, James.


Lavender Piano Services
Established 1977
Tuning, Concert Maintenance,
Rebuilding & Restoration
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,671
L
Loren D Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,671
Originally Posted by Olek
I thought that those impact levers did avoid any of those troubles.



Isaac, it's the hand that plays the keys that is giving me trouble, not the one that manipulates the lever.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,671
L
Loren D Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,671
Originally Posted by James Carney
Loren,

Hope you get well soon. A couple of months ago I was experiencing debilitating pain in my right hand - the thumb tendon specifically. It was scary, and I had to stop tuning for several days. Tuning with both hands, taking Ibuprofen, stretching, and changing tuning techniques alleviated the problem.

(cut)

I also started using the Levitan C-shaped lever on a daily basis and that has been the true game changer. It has made a tremendous difference, especially on new pianos with tight tuning pins, using a completely different hand position and technique from the traditional lever.


Thanks, James. Your comment on the Levitan C-lever is interesting. I thought that was for grand pianos only. Is it also usable on verticals?

On verticals I use a Cyberhammer, and I use a Fujan on grands.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 186
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 186
The Levitan C-lever is usable on verticals, and Dan actually demonstrates it in one of his videos. I believe he says that he uses it on all tunings.

That being said, the advantages of the C-lever seem like they would be lost on a vertical piano, and it seems to me it would be harder use it in a comfortable position. I almost bought the C-lever, but I got the Levitan classic instead since I do predominantly uprights in my service area.

Thanks for the thread, by the way - it's a good reminder to us younger technicians too!

Last edited by BenP; 05/03/13 09:39 PM.

Ben Patterson, RPT
South Jersey Piano Service, LLC
www.sjpianoservice.com
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 440
Originally Posted by BenP
The Levitan C-lever is usable on verticals, and Dan actually demonstrates it in one of his videos. I believe he says that he uses it on all tunings.

That being said, the advantages of the C-lever seem like they would be lost on a vertical piano, and it seems to me it would be harder use it in a comfortable position. I almost bought the C-lever, but I got the Levitan classic instead since I do predominantly uprights in my service area.

Thanks for the thread, by the way - it's a good reminder to us younger technicians too!


It works just as well on verticals as it does on grands, and I think the pin setting benefits apply equally to all pianos. Although, depending on the piano, I am sometimes holding it a little differently than Dan does in his demo video. I actually think it's easier to tune shorter and medium size consoles with the C-lever than a traditional lever, because it feels like there is less strain on your back. But I have yet to try it on a tall vertical like the Steingraeber 138 - in that case some of the tenor pins are positioned very high, and it may feel a little awkward. I will be tuning one of those soon and will report back.

It is also easier to switch tuning hands on a vertical using the C-lever than a trad lever, IMO.


Keyboardist & Composer, Piano Technician
www.jamescarney.net
http://jamescarneypianotuning.wordpress.com/
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
O
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Originally Posted by BenP
The Levitan C-lever is usable on verticals, and Dan actually demonstrates it in one of his videos. I believe he says that he uses it on all tunings.

That being said, the advantages of the C-lever seem like they would be lost on a vertical piano, and it seems to me it would be harder use it in a comfortable position. I almost bought the C-lever, but I got the Levitan classic instead since I do predominantly uprights in my service area.

Thanks for the thread, by the way - it's a good reminder to us younger technicians too!


I was shown how to use the weight of my body in the lever , for uprights.

A slow pull is necessary then, but the stress is limited.

Raising the anckle also seem not natural, but allow to use the arm's weight, free the shoulder and keep the back more straight.
Keep the shoulders low in any case (mean "not raised")

The playing hand wear if you play non musically. Karate and too strong totally useless unless you have very poor give.


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 186
B
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 186
Originally Posted by James Carney
It works just as well on verticals as it does on grands, and I think the pin setting benefits apply equally to all pianos. Although, depending on the piano, I am sometimes holding it a little differently than Dan does in his demo video. I actually think it's easier to tune shorter and medium size consoles with the C-lever than a traditional lever, because it feels like there is less strain on your back. But I have yet to try it on a tall vertical like the Steingraeber 138 - in that case some of the tenor pins are positioned very high, and it may feel a little awkward. I will be tuning one of those soon and will report back.

It is also easier to switch tuning hands on a vertical using the C-lever than a trad lever, IMO.


Thanks for the info. I would very much like to try a C-lever on some verticals. I love Dan Levitan's tools (and his percussion compositions too!).


Ben Patterson, RPT
South Jersey Piano Service, LLC
www.sjpianoservice.com
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,764
I've been thinking about this a bit more. We're all getting older, so you are right... this does concern all of us.

Have you also investigated nutritional help?

I mean the usual suspects... glucosamine, MSM, etc.

Though my health issues are different from your, I am recovering nicely from my heart problems last year... surprising well according to my MD.

One thing I do now is to add some whey protein powder to my diet every day to try to make sure my body has enough raw material to repair itself.

Though the following may seem really odd, I've been using something called Willard Water off and on for many years. I think is is making a difference. Your overall health will also influence your ability to recover from injury as well.

An old 60 Minutes broadcast about Willard Water:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpsBijaOouU


Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.morethanpianos.com
(semi-retired)

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,385
Posts3,349,183
Members111,631
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.