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Originally Posted by McBuster
CA95: Looks - 10.0


What would You give to the CS-10 then? And AG N3,e.g.?


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Kawai Warranty Response - 3.0

Blimey, that`s gone up a bit since I had cause to sound it out . . . !


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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by toddy
EssBrace wrote:

0.0

Or could also be expressed as pointless.
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Roland RD-1000
Kawai MP10
Yamaha CP1


Woa! Maybe you should check out Casio - or, otoh, a real piano perhaps would do the trick.


I was trying to subtly suggest that this thread is pointless.


there is nothing subtle about you Steve..


Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250;
Ivory II Grands, Italian, American D; Galaxy Vintage D; True Keys American; UVI Yamaha C7; Ravenscroft 275; Garritan CFX
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Originally Posted by bfb
there is nothing subtle about you Steve..


Compliments so early in the day Bruce...thanks!

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Just had a Warranty Claim that took two phone calls and about eight weeks before someone came out to me in the Minneapolis/St Paul region. The Tech was a 10, but Calif was slow to respond.

Thats all ...


Jon ...

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A Tired, Retired, Dreamer ...
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Originally Posted by Michael_99

I don't have a U anything so I don't know what it is. Is it a 3 legged piano?


My U3 has four castors and is made by Yamaha. It's going to be a while before any digital sounds or feels like this upright. If I didn't have it I think I'd be very satisfied with my digitals. But as it is, I'm quite devastated every time I play my U3.

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Originally Posted by toddy
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by toddy
EssBrace wrote:
0.0
Or could also be expressed as pointless.
_________________________
Roland RD-1000
Kawai MP10
Yamaha CP1

Woa! Maybe you should check out Casio - or, otoh, a real piano perhaps would do the trick.

I was trying to subtly suggest that this thread is pointless.

Maybe so. But not to put too fine an existentialist point on it: what isn't?


Well that's good news. I was beginning to think you hated your CP1. I bought the CP5 and I think it's pretty good but to give it a score without knowing how the best of the best sounds or plays I couldn't.


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Yamaha CP5. Used from 8/10 - 5/12:

Action- 10
sound- 9
inspirational/fun factor-10
functionality- 9
practicality/schlep factor- 5
Build quality- 8

Nord Piano 88 used from 11/11 - 5/12 . Nord Piano 2. Used from 6/12- currently :

Action- 4
sound- 7 (NP88) 8 (NP2)
inspirational/fun factor-3
functionality- 10
practicality/schlep factor- 10
Build quality- 9

The other two Yamaha CPs, the 1 & 50, even though I haven't owned them or used them on gigs, I've had extensive time on both and feel qualified to offer an opinion on those.

CP50:

Action- 6
sound- 6
inspirational/fun factor-6
functionality- 8
practicality/schlep factor- 6
Build quality- 6

CP1:

Action- 10
sound- 10
inspirational/fun factor-10
functionality- 9
practicality/schlep factor- 4
build quality-10

I'm going to offer an opinion on the Roland 700NX, the other top DP available at this time. Again, never having used it live, I can't give an opinion under "functionality" on how it would sit in the mix, etc. I did own the 700GX for a short time and would give that a "4", but the NX is a different animal.

Action- 9
sound- 9
inspirational/fun factor- 8
functionality- ?
practicality/schlep factor- 4.5 (even though it's the same weight as the CP5, the Yamaha is easier to grip because of the lip underneath the front keybed...so I deducted a half point.)
Build quality- 10


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X





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- 'potentially' quite happy with my casio PX 150.

It was relatively cheap, the action is quite pleasing and running the galaxy D (hint, hint, Peter!!) is sonically pretty satisfactory, although I'm restricted to decent headphones (no adequate monitors) at the moment.

My reservation is mostly about the durability of the action. I'd like to try and improve my ffz technique and I've no way of knowing how the keyboard will put up with that in the medium term.



Current satisfaction rating? approx 7.854 with an uncertainty durability coefficient of plus or minus 2.

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Originally Posted by McBuster
I, make no comparisons to "The Real Thing" as that would be unfair.


I practice on a Kawai CA63, but at lessons play on an acoustic and I expect my week's practice to show on the lesson. Why would the comparison not be fair?

Sound - with headphones (Sennheiser HD598) 8: I just 'feel' the music better, more inspiring, penetrating on the acoustic
          - without 6: B4 rings out, bass is feeble, everything is even duller overall compared to sound with headphones. Most of the time I'm not satisfied with what I play, though friends enjoy my small recitals.

Touch - 8: everything is easier to accomplish on the digital: bass doesn't drown the melody, playing pp-ppp, doing a 2 octave crescendo etc. The most inspiring moments I had regarding technique and what I have to do for the piano to sound the way I wanted was at an acoustic. Coming home and playing on the digital produced somewhat the effect, but the acoustic has always been the catalyzing agent.

Practicability - 10: I love that I'm able to play late into the night.

Value - 9: CA65 is out, but I don't think it covers the week points from above. N1/NU1 could potentially increase the touch score, though it's related to the sound, so I don't know what to say...

Time spent with the Kawai - 1 year
Current level of play: Moonlight 1st mvm, Mozart's Sonata Facile, Old Castle from Pictures at an Exhibition


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Dave Ferris....

interesting you give the CP5/ CP1 actions 10. so you are a fan of their non-graded action.... when i've listened to your recordings in the past i've always like the ones from the CP series- very clean sounding with a nice brightness.

i guess you've finally been tortured by Nord long enough? surprised by your low ranking- but not really.. i played a Stage 2 or whatever the most recent high end is called and i couldn't stand the action nor did i like the piano sounds at all- but i suspect that was because of the velocity curve being set too aggressively. it was under less than ideal conditions at a GC.

what differentiates the sound ratings (lower) for the CP50 vs the CP5/CP1?

thanks!


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The way DP manufacturers drag their feet, I'm surprised everyone didn't say 0.0 like EssBrace did earlier. I'll be a little more kind and say 2.0 for everything that I've tried all the way from 1982 till 2013. That's not saying much is it? Look at cell phone tech from the same time period, or desktop/laptops from the same time frame and you begin to see our frustration.

Call to action - let us all rise up and demand better products! Longer Samples! Longer Decay Times! More Resonance Modeling! Better Action! Downloadable Libraries (not just Nord)! Cheaper Price Tags! (that goes without saying for all technology)

Who's with me?

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Originally Posted by bfb
Dave Ferris....

interesting you give the CP5/ CP1 actions 10. so you are a fan of their non-graded action.... when i've listened to your recordings in the past i've always like the ones from the CP series- very clean sounding with a nice brightness.

i guess you've finally been tortured by Nord long enough? surprised by your low ranking- but not really.. i played a Stage 2 or whatever the most recent high end is called and i couldn't stand the action nor did i like the piano sounds at all- but i suspect that was because of the velocity curve being set too aggressively. it was under less than ideal conditions at a GC.

what differentiates the sound ratings (lower) for the CP50 vs the CP5/CP1?

thanks!


I believe it's the D/A converters between the 5 & 50. The sound of the 5 is a huge step up from the 50. The 50 sounds way more muffled in comparison. When you play the 5 after the 50, it's like someone took a blanket off the speakers.

The CP1 has a very obvious fuller sound then the CP5 when played side by side. Not sure if it's attributed to different converters or the extra preamp stage of the CP1. Might be converters because I thought that preamp affected the EPs more then the APs. I'd certainly defer to a Yamaha support person in this area though.

Yeah I'm tiring of the Nord pianos and the Fatar action live, but it's very functional on the gig. wink On the fence about buying another CP5 or waiting till something new is announced. In any case, I'll probably end up keeping the NP2 as my lightweight DP.

Yes the NW action is the nicest action I've played in a DP, aside from the Avantgrand of course. For me the NW is a good 2 points above the graded (which I very much like) of the CP50 in regard to response and control.


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha AvantGrand N3X





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As for my CP5, I'm in perfect agreement with Dave Ferris. As for my PX 130: The action was a little heavier or weighted which I at first liked better than the CP5 but after a while of getting use to the CP5 I began to like it much better. I can't say why. I guess you just get use to one action. The PX 130 felt loose and made knocking sounds on some keys. The CP5 has a smooth solid action and feels great. As for sound, the CP5 is better. I've had it for a year now.

CP5 - 10+ overall (Same as Dave's individual ratings)
PX 130 - 5 overall (sound 7.5)

My rating is overall, considering all things including construction quality but I can only rate the one from the other because I have no experience with any other DP. Price was not a factor in my ratings though construction and price may go hand in hand. Sound and action were the most important factors to me. Compared to the CP5, the PX 130 was quite cheap. I'm sure the reason has to do with construction. It's very light, 25lbs. For the price, the PX 130 is a great little DP for beginners. How long it can last is questionable. The CP5 is a solid instrument. Heavy, yes but built to last. You can bang on it with the confidence that it's not going to fall apart. Had the PX 130 been of equal construction quality I might have given it an 8 overall compared to the CP5.


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It's easy to find faults since nothing is perfect, but given that I would never ever buy a real piano, overall I'm very pleased with the experience and enjoyment.

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I just have had the chance to once again play with the speakers turned up to the volume similar to an acoustic and without noticing it I spent some 5(!) hours playing again and again my 25 minutes repertoire, which I up to now have under control:

10 points!

Too sad I can´t do this often. Usually playing only at a third the volume of an acoutsic, or with (lower) quality headphones, I am then missing the otherwise achievable explosive dynamics in the sound and could give only 7 points.

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I'll grade the ones I used the last few years afterwards:
Current: Now, note I rarely play an acoustic-

Korg SP280- 9.25.

I am dinging the .75 on the action; although it is improved from the SP170- i think they could have given this RH3-after all the LP380 has RH3. However, it is not spongy and does not make me cringe.
It makes the sound I PERSONALLY want to hear when I am writing/playing- a clean Steinway sample. I raved from day 1 about the speakers.
If it had GH like the Arius YDPS51- I would give it a 10

Casio PX130 -7.5
It serves its purpose- $399- $25 Amex - $150 sale of old collectables= $225 with free double X stand and headphones.
Can't complain about the value.
Action is decent for the price range and far beyond better than the P95 I had.
It is defintely expressive, it does line out to monitors.
And although only 1 Rhodes, it is very USABLE for my style of playing. Kudos to Casio for their brilliance settings as well.
Sometimes I want mellow, sometimes bright.
A keeper to take out, and not worry about.

Now- for the returns/sales

P95- As Marco said, this is were you start out on a high score and get lower. Exhibit A here.
It was nice getting it, however oveer time the speakers were not good, and really just the first piano sound was usable.
It was a pseudo console with the stand and pedals but I found I was using my PX130 a lot more- and they are very similar in their objectives.

Begninng score 8- final score 4

P105- Thought it would blow me away- it didn't. Speakers were a little better, not excellent by any means but the piano was a little more expressive and the rhodes was not bad.
I had 2 defective units though and lost my patience.
Had I owned a functioning unit from the get go I would probably go with 8.25.
GHS is just okay- newer NH on the Korg is a little better to me than GHS but not GH of course.

PX350- Totally overhyped by Casio with little concern for mechanics. Don't set volumes to low for sounds that are very good. Rhodes sounds were not of any variety. Speakers stronger on all of the other units I mentioned.

Final Score 3.5


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After a year or so with my CP33, I'd have to give it a solid 9. I can't imagine replacing it. I still often thank my lucky stars that I purchased it instead of something else.

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Ive had my Kawai ES7 since December and it has exceeded my expectations for a DP. I had a chance to use it twice now in live performances; once solo and other w/ band. Words cant express how great it sounds and what a pleasure to play. Im sure I will own other DPs in the future, but will never trade my ES7.

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