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#2073949 - 04/30/13 04:59 AM Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 252
CanCakmur Offline
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CanCakmur  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 252
Weimar, Germany
Hello,
I'm posting Aufenthalt by Schubert(Liszt's transcription) which I played in a student concert. My aim is to complete all Schwanengesang (but this is a very long project). I need your suggestions and comments to improve it. I will also post In Der Ferne in a short time.Thank you.



"Schubert's music brings tears to our eyes, without any questioning of the soul: this is how stark and real is the way that the music strikes us."
Adorno
#2075120 - 05/01/13 03:22 PM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: CanCakmur]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,857
BruceD Offline
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BruceD  Offline

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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,857
Victoria, BC
CanCakmur :

Suggestions to improve? I don't think there is much here that can be improved upon; this is a stirring and beautiful performance. You and I have a slightly different idea for the initial tempo - mine would be a shade slower - but that's just a personal preference. This is truly a fine, fine performance of a difficult but beautiful transcription; Liszt at his best in a homage to Schubert that is so faithful to the original.

You seem to be of the school of thought that favours "equalizing" the sixteenth-note after a dotted eighth with the third note of an accompanying triplet. This seems quite reasonable at the tempo you take this transcription; it might be too "fussy" to try to add the sixteenth-notes after the last triplet accompaniment notes.

What would you do in "Wasserflut" (from Winterreise) which also has dotted eighth-notes plus sixteenth-notes grouped over triplets, but where the tempo is much slower? Would you still make the last sixteenth-note coincide with the third triplet? (I know what I would do!) Liszt's notation (in the Edition Musica Budapest) suggests that the sixteenth-note must come after the third triplet note, although it can still be argued that it's a question of performance practice that has never been fully resolved.

Nonetheless : One more word to you : Bravo!

It's exciting to hear someone else who obviously admires Liszt's transcriptions of Schubert; I will be eager to hear your performances of "Abschied", "Liebesbotschaft", and "Die Taubenpost" in particular.

Thank you!


BruceD
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Estonia 190
#2075152 - 05/01/13 04:02 PM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: CanCakmur]  
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Posts: 252
CanCakmur Offline
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CanCakmur  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 252
Weimar, Germany
Dear BruceD
Thank your so much for your compliments! It is wonderful to hear those words in a such forum. Transcription is a dying art , unfortunately. Today, just that we can hear the originals, it doesn't mean that having other versions is useless.
Abschied is the most difficult probably so I will do it when I have more time. My favourite transcription from Schwanengesang is liebesbotschaft: It is next! And I adore die Taubenpost.

What you mention is the greatest dilemma of the Schubert interpreter! (As you said) smile
Brendel is in favor of playing the last sixteenth note with the last note of the triplet and so is Badura-Skoda. However the latter mentions a slight possibility of the other interpretation. I would follow Brendel and Skoda, I think. And what would you do? ( That is one of my biggest problems in the second movement of Fantasie in f Moll d940)
Again thank you very much!

Last edited by CanCakmur; 05/01/13 04:14 PM.

"Schubert's music brings tears to our eyes, without any questioning of the soul: this is how stark and real is the way that the music strikes us."
Adorno
#2075248 - 05/01/13 07:01 PM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: CanCakmur]  
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Posts: 20,857
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BruceD  Offline

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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,857
Victoria, BC
CanCakmur :

In the "Aufenthalt" which I read through this afternoon, I would most likely plan on doing as you do, i.e. playing the sixteenth-note with the last eighth-note triplet.

However, in "Wasserflut" where the tempo is much slower, I think the tension and the stark drama of the work is much better realized when the sixteenth-note comes after the third triplet.

It all depends on context, and I wouldn't categorically state that one is always right and the other is always wrong. For me, the context determines which option I would use.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
#2075298 - 05/01/13 09:09 PM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: CanCakmur]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,272
Polyphonist Online content
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Polyphonist  Online Content
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,272
New York City
We had a discussion regarding this issue on Pianist Corner a while back about the coda of Chopin's 4th Ballade, and a couple passages in the Polonaise-Fantasy Op 61. I think the consensus was that in faster passages, the sixteenth note should be played with the last note of the triplet, otherwise confusion would probably ensue and the values of the notes would likely get distorted in the attempt to carry out the rhythm as written; when the piece is slower, then it's better to make the distinction. (Bruce commented in that thread on several of the Chopin Nocturnes, like the C# minor Op 27 No 1, and in these pieces it is indeed advisable to play it as written.)


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2076098 - 05/02/13 05:46 PM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: CanCakmur]  
Joined: Sep 2006
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Damon Offline
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Damon  Offline
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Very nicely done! You are one busy guy, can I buy some ambition from you? laugh

#2076454 - 05/03/13 05:55 AM Re: Schubert-Liszt Aufenthalt [Re: Damon]  
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Posts: 252
CanCakmur Offline
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CanCakmur  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 252
Weimar, Germany
Damon:

Thank you very much! Love of these pieces are the ambition itself so help yourself and you have it already laugh


"Schubert's music brings tears to our eyes, without any questioning of the soul: this is how stark and real is the way that the music strikes us."
Adorno

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