Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Young Rude Foreign Student-What to Do?

To be clear, it's not really looking to be offended and I wasn't offended. Pianistically, I'm doing okay now, though not as well as I would wish, and it's conceivable that there were many talented folks of my childhood who I envied who have long since given up the instrument. (So there!)

Even as a child, though, I could sense that I wasn't excelling at this avocation/instrument (without working hard) in the way that I excelled at academics (without working hard) and, well, I won't say that I was particularly socially in tune with my teachers--there's a power disparity there and I didn't really engage/question--but I doubt I was any teacher's favored student. (I changed teachers perforce several times due to moving every few years.) To tie back to the thread, I do think I was always respectful (for a kid/teen), if *often* embarrassed due to not having practiced.

I'm not sure why I kept going. The only way I can say it is that I play piano because I can't not play piano.

So it's not that I was looking to be offended by the post in question (and I wasn't), it's that the comment dredged up the prospect that not only was I disappointed in my playing but that my teachers were suffering in in silence all along. (Which could very well be true, but it still makes me go, "Oh... ugh".)

For some reason, it's still hard not to take things like that to heart. I don't understand it, but more than anything else, musical expression, however imperfect, seems more inextricably entwined into my self-image than any other activity I engage in. IMO, performing exposes oneself to an incredible level of vulnerability that no other activity I engage in seems to approach.

Having picked up formal instruction again, as an adult, just a few years ago: my current instructor, who is an aficionado of the style that I finally realized I really truly enjoyed, is a delight. We have a real rapport and I think I'm finally thriving at the piano. I'm progressing steadily, but progress is by no means as fast as I would wish. I don't know if it's the teacher or my readiness to be a student, but I'd wish I'd found someone like him a couple decades ago.

Thank you Piano Teachers Forum for this productive therapy session--I'm sure those of you with adult students are no stranger to it!

While it's true that it might "not matter" what ethnicity a difficult student is from, it IS true, that there *could* be clues that you could learn from understanding that student's culture/country that might help us understand how different cultures view certain ways of relating as acceptable or not. What is rude here in the States MIGHT not be considered rude in China. I think that the OP was trying to determine that, but I'm not sure that anyone in this thread has either confirmed or denied that the issues *might* be stemming from a cultural difference.

Even in the interest of being "culturally open," I don't think it's helpful to DENY that there COULD be differences/misunderstandings.

O.K. this could be the case, but I'm just sayin' that plenty of kids from caucasian culture are rude.

So much for the rumor that all piano teachers are ex KGB agents with a stick and those squeaky terrorizing boots

Or some people might feel the answer is so obvious, that it doesn't need to be confirmed or denied??

Hello?????!!!!!!!!!!

That was a nice post to read Whizbang.
"The only way I can say it is that I play piano because I can't not play piano."

When one of my piano teachers was old and earth-tired, I said to her, "You had to have a lot of patience teaching me, didn't you?"

She answered, "Oh yes, very much so."

So even "good" pupils are "put up with." One should never end a sentence with a preposition.

(That is something up with which I will not put.)

LOL. "Or that is up something with which I will not put." But I think that gives the sentence a whole new meaning

I said it early on in the topic that this has nothing to do with China. Being disrespectful to a teacher I'm sure is frowned upon there as well. The real fact of the matter is that the OP is allowing this child to act out whatever issues she has with authority or with her in a manner that is disrespectful. She should be firm but fair with the student to resolve the issue and if no improvement occurs, she should dismiss the student.

As far as "putting up with" I know exactly where AZN is coming from. When I have a student that constantly comes to lessons unprepared or doesn't want to be there, it makes me not want to teach them. It's very hard to overcome this initial feeling of dread that occurs, and if a solution isn't found soon, it's better to dismiss the student than take someone's money with no results.

To address the issue of culture:

I think it does matter where someone comes from because different cultures see things differently and communicate differently as well, as is clearly the case here. Being a Russian immigrant myself, I often had to get used to the way that Americans would say things and they had to take time getting used to me and the way I communicate and what I try to get across. I am not a xenophobe, but someone who takes culture into account when dealing with those from other countries which is why I brought up the fact that she is from a different country.

Being from a different country, immigrants (at least from personal experience and from those around me) often need explanations of how to behave here, what and how to say things. That is as true today as it was when I came here many years ago.

But I see no evidence of that being the case here. The OP has other Chinese families and apparently does not have this problem with them, only this one child, so it is clearly not a cultural thing.

You reminded me of the night in 1974 when my first batch of Russian relatives arrived in Los Angeles. My mother had been working very hard getting their apartment ready and didn't have time to cook, so she bought a gigantic bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken.

We were all a little surprised when each of the five said they weren't hungry. Each one accepted only the smallest piece of chicken, and that only after a lot of prodding.

The second time the platter went around, each of them took two or three more pieces. We later learned that Soviet manners required everyone to refuse food until they were pressed. My relatives got over that particular cultural barrier very quickly!

Are we venturing out of the PG zone here?

And that's why I responded to your one-word response with a question mark. It was unclear what your intentions were. Thank you for clearing that up.

I could NOT agree with you MORE here.

I am rather angry tonight. I had a TERRIBLE day yesterday. People keep coming to this forum with "advice" about how teachers "should" act, as if we are robots who could and should potentially deal with any situation, no matter how discouraging it is in the real world.

Today I had three people quit, something that normally does not happen in a month or two.

1) An adult informed me that he had "problems" and would not be able to continue lessons. This happened after he assured me that he loved coming to lessons, loved the piano, and thought I was a great teacher. And just a couple weeks ago he wanted to increase his time to an hour. <????>

It took me almost an hour to find out that the whole thing was financial. Now, how do you go from having enough money to ask for doubling lesson time to not having enough money to continue at all? In only a couple weeks?

2) Another parent cancelled lessons for May saying that "something came up". I had already been told that they would be out of country all summer, but now it is plain that they have no time in May either. The boy, who is doing very well, will now be gone for the next four months

3) The boy in my last lesson of the day will be stopping because "dad has no time to help him". I made it clear before starting this boy that lessons would not work if the parent did not work with the child at home. But NO work had been done at home for at least two weeks, and really no work was ever done at home. The result: this child was unable to find five notes in the treble clef after almost two months of lessons.

Another boy who started at the same time, same age, is reading music in both clefs and now knows major chords in most keys - and more, knows how to count, knows the note values of basic notes, knows a scale, several octaves.

Yet if I try to tell the second parent WHY the OTHER boy is doing great and HIS has made no progress, I will hear every reason, every excuse in the universe why it is MY fault that nothing has happened.

I wish ONE parent or student how comes here but who has never taught would at least THINK about the fact we really deal with huge problems and that somehow we are expected to be miracle workers even when given NO cooperation.

Unprepared, uncommunicative, flaky or being a general PITA isn't the the same as slow or untalented.

Gary, you go from doubling your lesson time to suddenly quitting lessons by losing your job. It's not surprising that he's embarrassed to admit it.

The same thing happened with my partner in January. She lost a bunch of students in one feel swoop all for various reasons (and one student was probably a good loss to have). These things are worrisome for those of us who rely upon that student coming back so we have a means to pay the bills that don't change like rent, food, gas. Let alone if the teacher has a family to support too. These times are always tough to take and despite having policies that require 30 day's notice, even if all 3 students adhere to that, it's still a problem in 30 days.

I know you'll pull through this, and some of those that don't teach really don't seem to understand and always look to blame us or think that we can't have feelings too about this stuff. This always makes us question what did we do wrong? But the truth of it is, no matter how great a teacher you are, we don't always get great students.

I don't hear that very much in piano teaching, but back in the days in public school, it's like a repeated mantra: "Blame the teacher!" Even in faculty meetings, we get these "experts" who came in with graphs and charts, explaining that, among the persons responsible for "student learning" to take place, the teacher bears the bulk of the responsibility.

Very nicely put.

And/or their house. I lost a lot of students back when the Calfornia housing bubble broke.

The solution there is quite simple. Blame the experts! And I'm not quite kidding.