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Good day to all,

This is my 1st post in this forum & I'm very happy to say thank you for everyone who inspire people to continue their passion for the love of music.

I am just curious how the great pianist achieve their level of virtuosity? Is there a right program or pattern that I should follow? How can I divide learning sight reading, etudes, chords, scale, arpeggios, ear training, etc? Should I focused more time on sight reading? How many practice hours should I take each day that don't lead to mental fatigue & risk injury?

Many thanks..

I think the general answer is to get yourself to a teacher.
An initial evaluation lesson will help identify your current level, goals, strengths, weaknesses (I should say "areas offering opportunities for improvement").
From there the teacher will probably suggest what you should work on most, what doesn't need much attention right now, etc.

It seems mental fatigue and loss of interest come from trying to do what you think you are SUPPOSED to be doing - n minutes of Hannon every day, etc.

If Ya ain't havin' fun don't do it.
OK, maybe not THAT unstructured, but find ways of making your practice enjoyable.

Thanks for a swift reply..

Follow up question:

Yes you are right! I feel bored on Hannon and my teacher told me that I'm poor in sight reading but good in hearing & chords. Is there a way how to learn fast in sight reading? Does sight reading is the main tool of reaching virtuosity in piano?

Whats the ideal length of time practice each day..?

The way to learn "fast" in anything in piano is efficient practice. For sight reading, understand it can't be done in isolation. You need a good mixture of skills already before sight reading will become possible. Theory, technical, etc.. Having said that, the absolute key to sight reading is: Do it a lot and use very very very simple material. Very simple. Way below your playing level.

There is no ideal length of practice. Your length of practice time will be guided by many factors: Fatigue, availability, repertoire, level (in general beginners will get less out of more practice than more advanced students.)

But, here's the real thing: Longer does not necessarily mean better. Sometimes it can be worse. Efficient, on the other hand, always equals better.

A life time of diligent efficient practice, which includes not so interesting scales, arpeggios, finger drills and pieces which you don't like very much.

We are all curious about how the great pianists developed their technique!

For your first year or two do not spend too much time on scales, arpeggios and etudes. Concentrate first on pieces, ear training and a little bit of sight reading. Many of us claim to be poor sight readers and many of us are in awe of good sight readers. This implies that we do not need much sight reading skill to progress, just enough will do. Regular reading and a broad technical foundation are needed for sight reading. These things need building up over a number years from our pieces. Surprisingly little of it comes from scales, arpeggios and etudes.

Sight-reading itself needs regular short bursts, like five to ten minutes a day, over a number of years not half an hour a day over a scant few years.

As a beginner, thirty minutes of practise a day is too much if you're concentrating hard enough. Four hours a day is not long enough if you're just playing what you already know. Learn to set yourself goals that aren't measured in numbers of minutes.

Spend ten minutes memorising or mastering half a dozen notes and you've made measurable progress. Spend four hours making more mistakes than hitting the right notes and you've wasted your time.

Five hours a week is a lot of time to find if you watch TV but ten hours is easy to find if you don't.

Whether it's playing the piano or preparing for Judgement Day, the time means nothing - it's what you do with it that counts.

To master the piano, buy a decent whip. However, if you want to play like a virtuoso, focus instead on mastering yourself.

To master the piano, personnaly i have a very important tip...


Last week i wrote two words on an envelope and pprop it up every practice session. I now look at it regularly through my session.

The two words are: efficient practice.

What that entails for everyone is a personnal thing. People can give as much advice as they like. The key point is what works for you. And realising it. Most people have no idea.


I have very little idea, but the search continues.

Haha

Richard, how many hours each day should I spend preparing for judgement day?
Is there any good reference books that may help me in this pursuit?
I have not allways been a good boy.

Hi. I'm new to piano as well. Can you explain the part about not paying attention to scales? My teacher has me doing simple scales as part of practice.

Richard
Can you provide some ideas on how to go about ear training. I have been learning for 18 months. I heard about aural training. I am not sure how to go about it and whether I could do it without a teacher. Any recommended book for an absolute ear training beginner.

Repeatedly play a recording of Sorabji's entire Opus Clavicembalisticum until you can write down the entire thing without any errors.

Be grateful each morning for the gift of life and reflect each evening on how you've chosen to live it and how you've used the gifts and talents you've been given helping others less fortunate.

Actually, in your case, Rossy, I believe there's a plenary indulgence for arranging the Mendelssohn recital so you could get away with less.

But for the rest of us I repeat, it's not how long you spend on it but what you do in the time.

For reference books, try the letters of St Paul.

TIC

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Of all the things the OP listed, "sight reading, etudes, chords, scale, arpeggios, ear training, etc", he didn't mention repertoire.

Most of our technical development comes from our pieces. Scales and other exercises are tools for honing technique, they do not build that technique. The time spent on them should be limited. Done properly they are very demanding of our concentration ability and too much time on them reduces both their overall effectiveness and the energy we can devote to the more important task of developing repertoire.

My opinion is that scales and other technical exercises are more effective under the guidance of a teacher than for self-learners, who are generally better off spending more of their time working on a wider repertoire.
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I would start by picking out simple songs on the piano, like carols or well-known folk tunes. As you get better, work towards the music you listen to most.

Picking out the notes for Silent Night will do far more good than learning specific intervals. Give them names like major thirds and minor sixths when they're familiar as sounds and you can pick them out easily on the piano. When you're comfortable picking out melodies work on chords/harmony.

Aural training is just being able to hear music and reproduce it on an instrument. Naming intervals is for demonstrating that skill academically in an exam or similar situation.

WWelcome dindz

I can't answer if there is a "right pattern to follow" as I have only been playing for five months.
I can however give some observations of my journey so far. I think scales, arpeggios are good for the very beginner, these in fact become your first pieces and repertoire of any complexity in the early days, and give a sense of pride and confidence when mastered. They also make learning theory which is essential an easier task.
You don’t need to separate sight reading, etudes, chords, scales, etc etc, although scales and arpeggios are good warm up practice. Sight reading is something I tackled as a completely separate subject only to find I needed the skill I would get from repertoire, chords, scales etc, in order for the sight reading to progress. This is an organic process and must all be done in unision.
Half an hour a day on sight reading is enough of a mental drain, most people would say any more is not beneficial.
Practice time can be increased as you progress, your hands will let you know when they are tired.....heed the warning, that is when injuries happen.
I currently spend about two hours a day of good practice time at the piano and this is more than enough. Some people will get away with less I just have the luxury of time.
Finally, initially I resisted the Albert’s All In One Piano Course as it is a chord based program. That didn’t appeal to me, but with so many people using it I gave it a go and I now think it is more than worthy of recommendation. You quickly realise there is no road to virtuosity; otherwise we would all be on the same course. Rather what makes a virtuoso is time, prowess, dedication to the point of obsession (probably at the expense of everything else in your life and everyone around you). To be a well rounded pianist .......well I’ll let you know when I become one.

The best thing you can do is find a good teacher. No the teacher won't do it for you. You need to take it seriously.
One really good book that I can suggest is: The Art of Practicing by Madeline Bruser. Much understanding in that book.

Haha, buy a decent whip love it!

John

I am learning a new piece for my exam. I have only just started to try and play it. First right hand and then left and then together. I have only done the first two bars with both hands together. The way I tackle this is I will do these two bars until I am confident in playing them, and then move on to the next two bars and then try all four bars and so on. I have done two hours of it this morning and am on a break for an hour or so and then I will go back to it later today.

Does anyone else agree with this way of learning? It seems to work for me as working on brand new pieces can be exhausting until you can play it properly.

There is a school of thought that says if you need to do this for the entire piece, instead of just several spots in the piece, it is beyond you and you should put it aside and come back to it later. Given this is for an exam, you might want to review if you are ready for that grade or not.

Having said that, I have successfully learnt a few pieces that way, at the same time as doing pieces closer to my level. The head of my piano studio, who took me for a couple of Summer lessons on Debussy's Arabesque #1 concluded his comments with "Hmm ..." but had to admit six months later he was "wrong." But it's not ideal and I'm not sure I would tackle a piece that far ahead of my current reading, understanding and technical abilities again. But we'll see ...

I am not sure I really understand what you mean here. This is how I learn. Two bars at a time which means each time I play two bars, I play another two bars and then try from the beginning up to the two bars I have just done. This means I am constantly playing from the beginning each time which may seem like a waste of time but it works for me. At the end of the day, the most important factor here is that I learn the piece well enough to sit the exam and whatever way works for me I do. I have not failed an exam yet lol