|
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
64 members (bobrunyan, anotherscott, AaronSF, apianostudent, beeboss, brdwyguy, benkeys, 14 invisible),
2,196
guests, and
391
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 170
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 170 |
I have a lovely Baldwin Model L (6 ft. 3") built in the 1990s. Accu-just hitch pins. A reputable rebuilder recommended rescaling the bass strings. Some fine old technicians advised against it. I have heard that rescaling can make a piano sound even bigger. I would not care to loose that big, full Baldwin tone, yet at the same time, if the transitions can be smoothed out, why not? Any suggestions would help. The piano is for myself.
Last edited by Davepost; 04/24/13 07:31 PM.
David Postma, Associate Member, PTG Lansing, Michigan
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,326
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,326 |
Well, it's not quite that simple. The L strings were "synchrotone" strings which have to be made on a CNC lathe in order to account for the way that Baldwin patent (now expired) deals with the longitudinal mode. Arledge does this.
However, the CNC procedure requires soft copper. Hard copper might provide other tonal advantages.
I have found that the Isaac Profundo bass strings -- which use hard copper and also employ some other proprietary string-making procedures -- do quite well on Baldwins. You can contact me by PM if you are interested in more info.
Ari also does rescaling or you can provide your own specs. However, I would want to be clear about what the purpose of rescaling was before doing it just to make it different. The modern Baldwin scales are fairly well thought out.
There are other options, like using the special wire Ed McMorrow has mentioned in recent posts or using frozen wire.
Keith Akins, RPT Piano Technologist USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 170
Full Member
|
OP
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 170 |
Many Thanks. I have a set already prepared by Mapes according to the originals, but I can abandon those if need be.
David Postma, Associate Member, PTG Lansing, Michigan
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,326
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,326 |
Many Thanks. I have a set already prepared by Mapes according to the originals, but I can abandon those if need be. They will probably be fine. However, if not done using the Synchrotone procedure, they definitely won't be original, even though the core and wrap diameters are the same.
Keith Akins, RPT Piano Technologist USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
3000 Post Club Member
|
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489 |
I personally never cared for the Synchrotone bass strings (or Mapes, for that matter) and I don't think anything will be lost by rescaling. The simplest way to go about it would be to use the so called "hybrid" scaling procedures using Paulello wire.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714 |
I think you should audition rescaled pianos before making the choice. I find some of the rescaling being done today creates problems where there was none and fixes some problems that were there. There is a wide range of scaling practices being employed-so my rescale will be quite different from someone else.
The Baldwin L can have some rocking bridge motion issues at the top (notes 17-20) of the overstrung section. This can make some noises that the type of string won't change completely. The low singles are too heavy on the cores.
I have done several Bald L's that some pianists have thought sounded "almost" as good as a Steinway B when I was finished. These also included new bridge caps with "corrected" speaking lengths and strike points fit to the best ratios thru-out the treble.
Last edited by Ed McMorrow, RPT; 04/25/13 12:50 AM.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 21
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 21 |
Hello Ed, I would like to use your modified scale on my 1968 Baldwin L. I don't know if it's possible for you to give me enough information without evaluating the piano in person. It sounds like your scale really improves the sound a lot. Can Mapes send me a modified bass string set with your parameters for the core material?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714 |
Are you making new bridge caps/pin-block?
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 373
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 373 |
Sounds like you added strings Ed.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714 |
Yes, on many now I am fitting fine wound trichords in place of plain and wound bichord. The Paulello type O for cores allows many new things with strings.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 21
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 21 |
Ed, I am basically a tuner/ technician and I haven't done a lot of this type of work. Just restringing with original blocks. I seem to be moving toward replacing this block even though the pins are still pretty tight. I would like to have better tuning stability. I am aware capo and agraffe issues which I'll correct. This is my personal piano, so I can experiment somewhat. I would love to see first hand how these modifications work. The bridge is also in pretty good shape as far as I can tell at this time. If you think the modifications to the bridge would be worth the time I certainly would consider doing them, although I don't have much experience other than re-pinning a few. I also would like to install Ronsen (wurzen) hammers. I really appreciate your input on these issues. I know I'm in for a daunting task.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714
6000 Post Club Member
|
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,714 |
If you haven't replaced bridge caps and pinblocks before, the learning curve is daunting. Especially if you have little fine cabinet making experience.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 21
Full Member
|
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 21 |
Ed, I actually have some pretty solid woodworking skills. I like working with hand planes and spokeshaves. I build custom kitchen cabinets and furniture (mortise and tenon type). I also realize that the skills I have might also be just enough to get me into trouble. I'm not sure myself where to draw the line. As much as I would like to maximize this restringing for optimum results, I may be better off doing a more basic rebuild and stay within my limitations. (I could quote Clint Eastwood's Dirty Harry here)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:34 PM
|
Piano
by Gino2 - 04/17/24 02:23 PM
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,408
Posts3,349,457
Members111,637
|
Most Online15,252 Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|