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Hi Everyone,

I'm a total newbie here. This is my very first post.

I'm considering getting a Fazioli. I love many things about these pianos except for one thing. The ones that I've tried tend to have bright treble, which some folks in this forum have mentioned. My question is: Has any one successfully bring down the brightness by voicing? Does that muddle the treble clarity? Or causing overall volume/tonal imbalance?

Really appreciate it if you can share your experience here.

Thank you!!!
Wilson123

If it is true as I've heard said that Fazioli's tend to have a slightly thinner, brighter treble than many - I've never had the chance to play one, let alone compare several - and even though pianos vary from one instrument to another among the same brand and model, I certainly would never invest in a piano with the hope of changing its basic tonal characteristic. Voicing may help to some degree but my inclination would be to find a piano that I love from the start. You don't know how much the voicing is going to change the tonal palette of the piano nor if you are going to like the result.

Isn't your thinking somewhat akin to admiring the woman you've just met but for one basic trait and hoping, by gentle persuasion or other tactics, to change her character to better suit yours? She may turn out, to your surprise and horror, to be more of a shrew than you ever imagined and, therefore, wasn't the right one for you to begin with; perhaps, the Fazioli may not be the right piano for you.

Why do you think you want a Fazioli?

Disclaimer : This is a non-professional opinion, but I would not "go that route."

Regards,

I've played many Faziolis. They are one of my favorites because the touch is so predictable and easy to control. While I usually prefer less bright instruments, the ease of control I have with Fazioli pianos makes this not a problem for me, even with the 308 in a fairly small room.

There is nothing radical about the hammers Fazioli uses. They are Abel, and can be voiced down with judicious needling. That said, I would probably just change the hammers to something else, but that's ME. For you, it is probably best to find one you like as is, or try a different brand altogether.

Their clear, bright tone is central to the identity of these instruments. Voicing isn't going to hurt it, but it may evoke notions of "square peg - round hole."

To my ears, the Faziolis sound dark (some people call it cold in this forum), mysterious, and yet sweet. It is clean yet singing. I'm no technician or piano builder, but I guess this tonality comes from a unique combination/variation of fundamentals and overtones over the entire scale. I also like their bass. It rumbles even with a soft touch, giving out a mystierous cast. And of course, it has one of the most responsive actions that most people agree upon. But above all, I'm attracted to its unique tonality ... except for the bright treble.

I am definitely exploring other brands. I am just hoping to hear some first-hand experiences on the subject so I can make an educated decision at the end.

Wilson123

While Fazioli is a beautiful piano, I have often heard same.
Bar few exceptions, this has also been my own experience.

This was not quite the same with Steingraeber which seem to have more flexibility. When visiting Bayreuth factory in past they always had a good number of variably sounding pianos on hand.

If you want 'bright' they give you bright, if prefer darker, warmer type tone, no problem.

These pianos seem to go anywhere you like to take them.

Udo once told me: "we like to measure ourselves against every top rider - not just one "

Thinking these pianos *do*.

Good luck!

Norbert

"Dark" is usually considered the opposite of bright. So saying they sound dark and then saying they sound bright is basically a contradiction IMO.

I've played a few Faziolis but I'll leave it to the experts whether the treble can be or should be changed to your liking. But for the price these pianos cost, you should have the dealer voice it 100% to your liking before buying it. Dealers are often willing to do this is for far less expensive pianos.

Regardless of the cost of the piano, a dealer should be willing and prepared to do anything reasonable to the instrument BEFORE any commitment is made by a customer. In the price range of Tier 1 instruments, it is not unreasonable for a customer to insist on being completely satisfied with sound and performance BEFORE exchanging any funds or making any commitments.

That being said, every manufacturer has a different approach to tonality and even though most of the Tier 1 instruments are arguably of similar construction quality, each has its own tonal spectrum. Like ice cream, it is up to the individual to determine which "flavor" suits him best. In my shop, we are fortunate to represent four Tier 1 piano manufacturers, each with a distinct approach to sound. While their build quality is comparable, we would not recommend or attempt to re-voice one to sound more like the other, but we certainly would voice the instrument to be even and consistent, and perhaps make small adjustments to please a customer's palate.

To the OP's question: While surface brilliance can certainly be muted with voicing, intrinsic tonal properties of an instrument, for which many pianos are noted and/or excoriated, can not change - only masked. One only has to look at the reviews from noted music critics (such as the Washington Post, or San Francisco Chronicle) to know that "too bright" is a term often associated with reviews of the brand being considered.

IMHO, it would be preferable for the OP to find an instrument that meets his preferences from the start.

Could you explain a little more about "change" vs. "mask" and why(I'm guessing) you think masking is not desirable?

I've played several Faziolis as well and find them to have a silvery pure, clear and clean sound, but a bit too thin in the treble for me as well, and with a "cool" rather than "warm" tonal character. This seems to be part of the voice of the piano and probably part of the aesthetic the designer is aiming for. It might not be wise to try to change that too much-- and it would likely be temporary. You might find yourself in a constant battle to get it to sound in a way that it does not naturally lean towards. The actions were great, and the craftsmanship wonderful, but I can't get past the thin, metallic treble.

Sophia

I find the tone on the Fazioli on the YouTube recordings of Trifonov or Angela Hewitt to be absolutely beautiful and with none of the negatives some have mentioned on this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtVocYjexfw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfqfcHJD_fs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUI90rbdUBU

This is a more complex question than you might realize. "Brightness" is, first of all, in the ear of the beholder. Some people interpret the brightness of a Fazioli to be a positive thing, reflecting clarity of sound, purity of tone, and emphasis on the fundamentals of the note with less stress on the harmonics.

If what you are testing out is a new Fazioli in a showroom, it has been voiced to the standards that Paolo Fazioli requires, which is an emphasis on the purity of the tone. I've heard Faziolis which have been voiced differently from factory standards and sound quite a bit mellower. I've had my own Fazioli voiced that way (with needles - no chemicals allowed on Abel hammers) and am quite happy with it in a home setting.

That's the third point - unfortunately until you get the piano home you won't know how it really sounds. There are usually great acoustical differences from the showroom to a private home, depending on carpeting, walls, windows, curtains, ceiling height, etc. You will have to take a chance that the instrument can be adjusted to your liking, but before you take that chance, definitely have the dealer voice it to your liking in the showroom. If at least under those conditions it isn't in all respects to your liking, than think carefully about buying it.

Note also that while Faziolis are well-known for having a similar sound from instrument to instrument, there are differences in the brand from one size to another, and sometimes from one piano to another in the same size. The smaller Faziolis can be less bright and will work well in a home setting.

One other thing I did a few years ago was to switch to a Victorian temperament tuning from standard equal temperament. This puts less stress on the strings in the upper and lower octaves - they are not stretched as tightly. You will get some interesting discordances that provide coloration, but you will also hear a somewhat mellower sound from the upper notes.

I tend to agree.

Victorians used equal temperament. No matter, what would put less stress on strings would not be the temperament, but Victorian pitch: A-435.

For every ying - a yang : Review

BTW, Mr.Kassman, nice concert last night.

Were you there? It was quite special. Mr. Sutherland is an exceptional pianist and has been with the SF Symphony for nearly 40 years, having been appointed as principal pianist by Seizei Ozawa in the 70's. The Rachmaninoff two-piano Suite (#2 in C minor) was brilliant, and the two Steingraeber's were, IMHO, amazing. But I must admit I liked the Faure quartet the best of all the pieces, and that Adagio was simply bliss.

For PW members: SF Symphony pianist Robin Sutherland performed last night at the SF Conservatory with several other noted Bay Area pianists (Professors at SF Conservatory) including Paul Hersh, Scott Foglesong, Keisuke Nakagoshi, Christopher Basso and Nicholus Pavkovic. The two pianos used were Steingraeber 272 and 232. Here's a picture:

I don't agree with this. Equal Temperament (ET) did not come into widespread use until the 20th. century. In the Victorian Era, there were many variations of what is now referred to as a Well Temperament.

Now, in the 21st. century, there is much interest in exploring the beauty of the temperaments of the Romantic Period. Early music ensembles are commonly tuned in Meantone Temperament.

Yes. I was there. Superb performance indeed from all artists!

Here are two recordings by two notable fans of Fazioli pianos, the Cherubini showing the mellower side, the Liszt the more brilliant side. Personally, I find the sound quite beautiful, without the distinctive coloration of Steinway. Like 'pure spring water' (as Sibelius said of his symphonies, in comparison to Mahler's ).

Andrea Bachetti - http://youtu.be/HkdJOScThLg

Louis Lortie - http://youtu.be/g9-U0Pg-fUA

I've played the F278 and F212 quite often, and prefer them to the equivalent Steinways, both in sound and quality of action and build.