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Hello all, here's my first post. I've been searching for a piano and doing research for about six months and I've found a Steinway B from '64 at 25,900. It has been described to me as excellent original condition. I live out of the country but my uncle is a certified Steinway tech. He is going to go see the piano. If he gives me the go ahead, do you think I should go for it? I'm concerned that if I wait, someone else will snatch it up and I won't find a piano like this at this price again or at least not for a long time. I know a piano tech here that does great work as well so over time other details (regulation, voicing, repairs, etc,) can be taken care of. What do you all think?

Price seems high to me, especially for one from that era, which was not Steinway's greatest, by any stretch of the imagination....

Hello, welcome to the forum!

The concern that "someone else will snatch it up" is not a good motivation for you to buy a piano. You should buy a piano because you like the instrument, not because someone else might.

I don't think that price is a steal for a 50+ year old piano without restoration.

Is that a Teflon piano?

I think you need to continue looking. Your assertion that you might not find one like this for this price again is not based in fact. Here in New York, there are tons of these pianos, NEWER versions, in great shape, for the same price, after you negotiate. Go to this website, for instance, and look at numbers 390, 392 and 416.

http://sonnyspianotv.com/piano-gallery

Yes it is, Mark.

Mountain man,

What Mark is referring to is the fact that the bushings in the action of a B made in 1965 were teflon instead of the traditional felt wrapped metal bushing. This seemed great at the time because teflon is inert and it is self lubricating, but many of these actions have had problems over the years. The only real solution is replacing the entire action.

Even if this action does not have any issues (which is possible), the fact that it is has teflon bushings deflates its value in the marketplace.

Additionally, depending on the structure of the piano (pin block, soundboard, bridges) you could be looking at a huge investment in addition to your purchase price, either immediately or imminently.

Pull back the reins on this one and see what your tech. says.

Keep us posted,

plus 1

You didn't give enough info to support the comments posted so far as regards the price. If this B is natural wood finish in superb shape, and it has ivory key-tops in superb shape-the asking price is not excessive. A seller usually expects a counteroffer.

Hello all, I appreciate very much all the quick feedback.

CC2, thank you for your comment. Do you know Sonny's work? I have seen many of his pianos online.

Rich, the piano is from 1964, not 1965. That said, I am aware of the teflon issue and that is one of the things my uncle will be looking at. The only dates for the teflon era I can find say that it starts in 1968 but that is not necessarily correct. Can someone confirm for me when exactly they started using teflon? As far as the structural condition, it has been described as a "time traveler" with the sound board, pin block, and bridges caps in excellent condition.

Ed, the case is the simple ebony in like new condition with plastic keys. The price I quoted is their counter offer, it is listed for higher.

Beethoven, what is it about the '60s Steinways that are not so good? There is a post on this forum about that (http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1746450/What_s_wrong_with_1960s_Steinw.html) but it doesn't seem to give any specifics on why the 60s are subpar.

Thanks again for all the input. As soon as my uncle actually sees the piano, I will post his comments. Cheers,

The teflon bushings began in 1962 and was officially discontinued in 1981, although I have seen a 1982 piano that had teflon.

I hope that helps,

My understanding of the rap on the 60's to 70's era Steinways stems from business changes that gradually caused Steinway to lose much of their skilled staff over that period and quality with it. Steinway was owned by CBS from 1972 to 1985 and the "CBS era" pianos have their share of reputation challenges.

This makes some of these pianos good deals, precisely because everyone knows they are garbage.

My experience is that it's very hard to get a Teflon bushed action consistently even. You'll be happier with felt bushed in the long run I think.

Sure, the 1920's were the golden age, but these are elderly instruments now. If they've been rebuilt, they reflect the skill and taste of the rebuilder. New Steinways seem nicer now than 20 years ago when I was first shopping.

Stay away from this "deal". A 50 year old piano would need reconditioning (new strings, dampers, felts) minimally, if not true restoration. I supect that if you purchased this piano,, you would have to put another $5-10K into it. I agree with the other posters regarding the teflon action of that era. You can find well restored Steinway A's for around $30K and B's for $35-40K. These are plentiful and can be found with some light internet searching.

CBS must of really been bad, they even owned the Yankees when they were very bad in late 60s early 70s and sold them to George for 10 million. Now worth a few billion...

I agree with your first few sentences. But your prices for Steinway A's and B's seem extremely low in my experience. Even Country Piano, with much lower prices than NYC rebuilders(who admittedly may be on the high side)sell As for 45K and Bs for 55K. In NYC these models are generally even more expensive.

I agree that $35,000-$45,000 is probably too low for a good Steinway B rebuild.

I was surprised to find out Steinway had reintroduced the A. I think of A's and B's being of almost opposite temperaments, perhaps that is not true anymore.

When talking about restored A's, are we referring to the newer ones or the (much) older ones? Aren't the the older ones old enough to be concerned about the condition of the soundboard?

Prior to the re-introduction of the S&S-A from NY, the older issues were from 1878-1947. Any piano of that age would require consideration of the condition of the soundboard. It is not unique to S&S-A and would apply to any piano builders.

Ask your uncle check the piano for an over-hardened capo bar. It is a rare problem but I won't pay much for a B with it because the repair is expensive. It likely has the first generation of teflon bushings and may have the all felt knuckles. These action are the noisiest and the parts are difficult to service. Replacing the shanks is the best option and depending on your goals there are a lot of parts options now for configuring the action to increase dynamics, control and tonal stability.

The price does seem on the high side from what I now know and if there are any of the above issues it should sell for around $20K. If the finish, board, pin-block, bridges or strings are sub-par the value drops to somewhere between $10 and $15K

We hear some version of this fairly regularly. In fact, it is likely that had CBS not stepped in and purchased the company when it did we probably would not Steinway around to bash today. I find it odd that so many folks chose to blame CBS for problems that had been developing for decades before they stepped in, stopped the decline and at least laid the foundation for its eventual turn-around and comeback.

CBS bought a gutted and failing company. It then poured millions of dollars into at least beginning the renewal of the factory and the company. Subsequent owners and management have been able to expand on that and the company is building much better pianos today as a result.

I have no particular love for—or interest in—CBS but it is unfair, I think, to blame CBS for not being able to reverse decades of neglect during the relatively brief period of time they were in control of Steinway.

ddf

Del's got it right. The family ownership was spread wide and many members wanted dividends.

Joe Bisceglie (who was chief Tone Regulator at the end of the CBS era) told me CBS was supposed to get them new action part making machinery but didn't. I think that situation has finally changed.