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Smoke another one!

I think Lelax took a mental ExLax

We are hoping for better, but prepared for bitter disappointment and sadness.

Dear Lelax,
when we talk about NAMM, you can be sure it's not going to be about the National Association of Mirror Manufacturers or even the National Association for Moisture Management.

ok, let's get back to the topic and keep this thread on topic - and that is the FP-80 and FP-50 (No, I will not spell them out).

So, it arrived about 2 hours ago. Here are my first impressions:

+Nice.
+Loud! (definitely a lot louder and clearer than the FP-7F)
+372 Sounds (Tones)
+True SN Concert Piano
+Drawbar Organs
+Great E-pianos and organs

-No Studio Grand
-E-Pianos are not SN adjustable
-There are some impurities in the Concert piano (Here and there... but not in Free Thinkers range) F4, F#4, depending on loudness. Over speakers and Headphones.
-No open/closed lid
-No audio over USB cable to computer (only MIDI)
-Mini-stereo-jack input

Key thumping??? Well it's not that bad. I guess it's quite normal considering the weighted keys. I couldn't tell you if the key action is different to the FP-7F, considering I only played it once at the store.

...These are just my first findings and impressions. I will keep you updated (as I have luckily the next couple of days off).
All in all I am very happy with this instrument and I am sure it will fulfill my needs for the years to come.
So long for now, gotta get busy with them keys....

Congrats! It's good to hear that you are happy with the piano. Would you mind posting some recording (of solo piano) for our curiosity? Thanks:-)

"-There are some impurities in the Concert piano (Here and there... but not in Free Thinkers range) F4, F#4, depending on loudness. Over speakers and Headphones."

Can you explain a bit more about what exactly you mean by 'impurities' and in how far they are noticeable or even annoying while you play ? Is it only in the first concert grand preset or also in other presets (that may be based on the same base SN AP sample material). I assume you mean that this impurity is part of the SN sound itself and not some resonance or distortion in the cabinet / speaker system ?

All in all , how would you describe the feeling when you play ; do you have the idea that you're really 'into' the sound and can articulate well and that there's a good connection between the action and the sound you produce ? I'm not looking for the last bit of authenticity in the AP sound, but wonder if the playability is a good representation of what you would experience when playing an acoustic. (Yes, I know it's a bad comparison, because the sound comes from speakers etc, but something can be said about how well it works as a stand-in for an acoustic ?)

Last thing: you say the speakers are loud. Roland has introduced the two way systems as a "revolutionary" sound projection system. Expensive word to describe it that way ;-) Anyway , do you have the feeling you're immersed a bit in the sound it produces, or is it all marketing bla bla and the speakers sound OK, but that's it ? (Do they produce enough base / bottom ?)

cmin: "no audio over USB cable..."

I know you can record audio as .wav to USB I don' see why you can't record to computer via USB

If it's like RD-700NX, then at certain mid-velocities, there is a slight metallic twang. I know I've praised Studio Grand up and down, but I've dialed in a Concert Grand edit that's really growing on me -- it feels more dynamic than Studio Grand.


I suspect that requires a custom Windows driver, as it's probably not part of the universal midi-over-USB spec. It certainly could be done if they wanted too -- it's a very low bandwidth activity.

Yes, I find this a pity. I want to record to my DAW staying on the digital level. That means I have to either use a USB stick with audio (44.1kHz, 16 bit) then import it to my computer, which is not very professional. Or, go analog out. Meaning, the signal would be converted from D/A then again A/D - also not very professional. Of course, there is the possibility to buy an iPhone or iPad (which I am NOT going to do) and use the wireless Wifi app from Roland - also not very professional.
It would be so easy to have the signal going out through the USB cable - but, no.
Maybe there will be an update for that.
Irony: The update would most likely be the FP-80F for ONLY 1800,- euro.

Today I will still post some audio examples of the Concert Piano.

C U

Well I always found recording to USB stick and putting it in my Mac not such a big deal. It works simple and quick. Wouldn't be a deal-breaker. Unless what you mean is that you want to record FP80 sounds into a sequencer arrangement; in which case it would have been nice to have a digital signal path or even better have the FP act as a software plug-in in your DAW. Some manufacturers DO offer that functionality for their workstations and synths. I think DP's have another purpose in their view and don't need such sophisticated features or DAW integration.

I noticed a slight high pitched ring or maybe synthetic noise in some areas when played at certain velocities. For me it is not bad - I can live with it. It is in the sound itself definitely (I heard it over both the speakers and headphones). I messed around with the SN parameters and believe it might have been one of those that caused it (some resonance) because it seemed to be better after that.
To be honest, I didn't really use much of the other piano sounds because they are not worth the effort



IMHO I really like the feel. And yes, I think after getting a little used to it, it won't be a problem to get 'into' the sound and 'articulate' my playing. A DP (IMHO) will never be as authentic as an AP - but for what it is, it's great.



Being a sound engineer for the past 25+ years.....
Roland did put some thought in their new 'Acoustic Projection'. It is very pleasant for what it is. Having such 'small' speakers, it does engulf the player into his/her instrument. The bass sounds are pretty full (sure, you don't have a sub woofer) and the highs are very clear sounding. Of course, one can not compare to high-end monitors - but then again, there is no hassle with all the schlepping, cabling, stands.... The sound emits directly from the instrument and that is the way it is supposed to be, I find. I like to feel the vibrations at my finger tips

BUT.... forget that with the microphone input. What a gimmick. If you are a pianist who sings at the same time (like me) look for other possibilities. There is an EQ on board, but it affects the piano sound as well at the same time. If you want to have reverb ("ambience") on the voice but not on the piano - no way (EDIT: Yes, ok, it does work). The other way is no problem, no reverb on voice, but on piano. The harmony effect is funny - and that's about it.
I will have to go the conventional/old way and do my voice processing outside of the keyboard and input it through the mini jack input.
Oh, I almost forgot: that mini jack does not have a separate volume control.

Hope that answers some of your questions JFP.

"that mini jack does not have a separate volume control."

I think hardly any DP with an audio input has that (exception defines the rule). Also it's probably a clean input line to the amp/speaker system is it ? I mean, without going though the 'correcting' EQ that is part of the signal patch when playing internal sounds. Without this EQ the sound is not optimized for the totally un-flat response a speaker in cabinet design has and any music you play over it sounds unbalanced and weird. True ? Or DOES Roland put the input channel before this EQ , I wonder...

Yeh...microphone. Couldn't care less. Rather had some more routing options on the Roland and/or 256 polyphony ; ditch the gimmicks and use the saved-up resources for enhancements where it really matters.

BTW - do you mean that apart from the first Concert Grand preset , the other presets are rubbish ? Like Ballade, Bright and Dreamy ? And the EP's; wow good are they ? There are Tine / Reed and FM in the list. Assume they are all SN. Are they really good ?

Happy the speakers are OK and also that the impurity is not a real 'distortion' of some kind, but more part of the sound character and can even be dampened somewhat by playing with the SN parameters. All-in-all ; the Roland is a keeper and worth the money ? (hard to tell - cause as an owner you always feel tempted to justify your purchase no matter what, but anyway).

Oh.. and external monitors; I know what you mean, I've always used some HQ studio monitors, but never had the feeling I was digging into the instruments cause there is always some separation in such a setup between the instrument and perceived sound source. When the speakers are build-in and it's cleverly done, you have more of the impression sound + instrument is one. Especially when you have some tactile feedback as well. Never mind the quality of the speakers is not on par with any studio monitor set.

Put my hands on an FP-50 yesterday. Not a big variety of AP sounds but the Concert sounded descent over the somewhat small speakers. To my surprise the action felt better and less noisy than on my own RD300-NX, even though they share the same keybed. I suppose the different cabinets has an effect on key beheaviour.
A nice little DP it is.

Yes, the input is BEFORE EQ!!! That means, everything (the FP-80, the Mic input and even the line input) go through the internal EQ. How frustrating.
Furthermore, the 'Mic Harmony' is also in the line input - not only Mic input (the way it should be). So theoretically, if one is playing to let's say to an MP3, phone, or whatever going into the FP-80 and you have a mic in the mic input and you want to use the 'Harmony' effect, everything except the FP-80 sound will be 'harmonized'. grrrr.
Another thing I noticed: If 'Local control' is off (because I want to use external sounds; such as plugins from a computer) the damper release of the FP-80 is still there, audible. You have to move to a different sound internally that doesn't use the damper release in order for it to work correctly.

JFP: "do you mean that apart from the first Concert Grand preset , the other presets are rubbish ? Like Ballade, Bright and Dreamy ? And the EP's; wow good are they ? There are Tine / Reed and FM in the list. Assume they are all SN. Are they really good ?"
No the other sounds are not rubbish. But they are just, how should I say..., nothing special. Out of the 14 sounds in the Pianos, maybe 6-7 are useable. I don't need Piano with E-Piano, or Piano with Strings. If I need them I just layer them myself.

Just to make things a bit clearer to everyone. Here is
my live setup.

And here is the back of the FP-80.

So the signal routing sucks...if your interested in using the external inputs. For pure piano pleasure it doesn't matter. By the way - I don't mean the use adjustable EQ m but an 'invisible' fixed internal EQ stage that is in between sound engine and speakers on a DP , to compensate for the non-flat frequency response of the (uncorrected) sound system. This EQ is of course not between engine and headphones. And often not available for the external input.

It's easy to hear. Compare a piece of music played from an USB stick over the internal speakers and the same piece over a playback device connected to the external audio input. If they sound totally different (usually the USB version correct and the input version does not) , then the correcting EQ is not used for the audio input. If they sound the same (at the same level), than the EQ is indeed switched between audio input and amp/speaker system as well.

Nice setup by the way. I understand now you do care about the mic and audio in and intended to use that in practice. Shame it has such basic , flawed signal routing.

hi JFP, I don't see why you're still interested in this DP when it has probably nothing you like! Is it that the other brands out there are worse? Or too expensive.
I just use mine for pleasure. Mysteriously the offending noise has diminished enough that I enjoy playing via onboard speakers as well as via headphones which on my unit (unlike cmin) do not produce the offending sound (not yet anyway). My fp 7f had 2 areas of the keyboard with noise and was produced on headphones too. I think it' a gamble buying the Rolands as far as noise is concerned and a travesty as far as the electronic routing and software is concerned. I'm not trying to dissuade you from this piano but if you're a demanding musician (which you give the impression) I would recommend another piano if there is one out there.

Hi all!

Here are some WAV recordings I made directly to USB stick demonstrating the FP-80. Yes, they are a bit quiet - just crank up your speakers.

Simple melody: (Sorry, haven't been practicing for a while)
Wave 1 - Gee Dee

Chromatic demonstration: From low to high. mf & mp
Chromatic demo

Here is that problematic F4 on my DP:
Concert Piano F4

Cheers

I think xorbe has it right. Recording to a USB stick, where the piano is the host, is much simpler than sending audio over USB to the computer, where the piano is the slave (the computer is the host), and it would require writing a custom driver for Windows (and Mac), and some commitment to keeping those drivers functional through future Windows/Mac OS updates at least through the sales life of the piano. Doing this might also interfere with the ability of the piano to behave as a "class compliant" device which could create its own complications.