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I am interested to find out how other people fared with sight reading in the early years. Going from zero piano and sight reading skills how do you think your sight reading skill developed by the end of the first year and second year.

I ask because I would like to get an average opinion which might give me some hope in this regard.

I realize we are all different, depends on how much we practice or how important it is, but all stories will be great appreciated.

Love the title of your thread.

I don't know if my reply will be what you're looking for, as I could read music before starting on piano - I just couldn't read bass clef.

Even with my previous experience, which was pretty good, I found it hard to get the hang of the bass clef.
My first teacher said that it generally takes about 2 years before students are reading "fluently" - but of course that always depends on how much time you dedicate to doing it. It certainly took me over a year to feel I was reading correctly with just the odd slip up here and there, longer to feel I was starting to be able to do is at a respectable speed.

And now, just as I was getting comfy, my pieces are getting harder

It's been 8 months since I started and my sight-reading is pathetic. I know I have to keep a tempo, read slow and look ahead. But there is too much going on and my brain cannot keep up with it.

I guess sight-reading is like walking. First, you have to stand on your feet, balance your weight between steps, check if steps are equal, look ahead to see if there is an obstacle, etc.. I think I have to struggle just like a baby. You can't expect a baby to walk like a model suddenly, right?

You may want to delete that bit, as it could be offensive to those for whom it, unfortunately, is not true.

Thanks.

By the end of the first year? Awful! But then I did little to no practicing of it, and any that I did was probably most all improper so it is/was to be expected.

I still need to practice this with greater regularity, but at least I've developed the skill a little and can practice it with confidence and not just get frustrated and quit after a few minutes like when I'd started. Here's two nice resources to help explain practicing it:

http://www.pianoteacherlosangeles.com/2012/05/on-sight-reading-there-is-really-no.html

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...t%20read%20-%20material%20an.html#UNREAD

Does sight reading refer to being able to read notes at all, or *while* you play?

Some people use the term interchangeably, but to me, "sight-reading" means to make a conscious effort to play through a whole piece (at whatever tempo) without stopping (this means no looking at your hands), usually without ever having seen the piece of music before. Reading, on the other hand, in a musical context may be interpreted as just simply looking over a piece of written music, not unlike one does with a book.

earlofmar, I have read your post, here:

I am interested to find out how other people fared with sight reading in the early years. Going from zero piano and sight reading skills how do you think your sight reading skill developed by the end of the first year and second year.

I ask because I would like to get an average opinion which might give me some hope in this regard.

I realize we are all different, depends on how much we practice or how important it is, but all stories will be great appreciated.

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I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano

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Sight reading is interesting because I never know what it means to everybody else, so I guess, I will explain what it means to me.

In my life time I had a few, and I mean a few guitar, violin, accordian, piano, sax lessons, I could read the treble clef notes - on, under 5 and above 5 staff. but reading notes isn't reading music - it is a huge help - but not everything. A year ago, I accidently fell deeply in love with playing the piano when I played a few pieces out of the first book of the Leila Fletcher of beginner piano. I knew enough that I was in deep trouble because I didn't know the bass clef, so I concentrated very much so in the bass clef. What helped immensely was writing out the major scales, in the bass clef - not only on the bass staff, but below and the bass staff starting with G the last line of the bass clef and then below that F, E, D, C, B,A, G, which was extremely helpful working on it over the last year. Early on in music you learn very quickly that knowing the names is tiny compared to knowing counting measures and working with note values beyond eighths notes, dotted notes, and rests of all descriptions.

Two things helped my reading or sight reading of any and every description. From piece number one to the current day - of a year - I review a large portion daily of every piece I have ever learned. Currently I am working though John Thompson book 1, so I currently review daily the 27 pieces I know from the first page of the book. Additionally, I review the 50 pieces I learned from my first piano book of Leila Fletcher every 2 or 3 days. I would like to review these daily, too, but I am starting to get very excited with the new stuff in the JT book.

Although, I am dyslexic, have learning and memory, problems, I have not had any difficulty playing any music until today, - coincidentally - and, disappointedly, my first classic, too, Mozart , "Air from Mozart", 16 measures. The problem or the issue, was the treble clef has dotted quarter notes etc, and the bass clef only had dotted half notes. The time signature is 3/4. Mozart had my little fingers too busy - even though I was playing slowly - but I knew immediately that I should write out the piece on staff paper and put in the fingering, and the counting of the measures so I can play through the measures and play the notes accurately and keeping the timing right. So I worked through the piece over 2 or 3 hours and I can play it - just okay, but it still needs a lot of work to play it smoothly.

As soon as I could play the piece through, okay - if you will, I turn to the John Thompson Book to read and play the piece. I just write out any piece, or portion of a piece on staff paper to reduce the risk of making any errors in timing or wrong notes, and then I go back to the original to read and play the piece.

I have been okaying reading the music so far up until today but I suspect it will be more complicated over time, but the key is - it isn't about learning new pieces, but reviewing constantly, because I am a beginner and these pieces are the foundation pieces of learning to play the piano so I have to play them until I can play them easily. So note names are fine, in sight reading, but reading through complicated rhythms is a lifetime of learning the piano.

By sight reading I mean picking up a piece I've never seen before and playing it correctly for rhythm and notes although slowly. Ideally I read the dymamics too. The only thing that seems to help is reading lots of music. Most people read music a bit easier than they are able to learn over more practice time. The biggest help lately has been having my teacher pull out a new piece and then critique my sight reading. I STILL have trouble reading ahead...just don't seem to do that well.

I did zero "sight reading" and very little to learn to read music at all. I'll tell what my hindrance was... There are not probably five or six pieces in the method books I started with (Alfred's #1 for adults) that I had not heard many times in my childhood, many of which I knew how to sing.

Because of this I tended to play them as I had heard them (however they were arranged in my mind) rather than read the music. A huge deficit in my early studies. I began to improve much when I started to play pieces I didn't "know" `cause by default I had to read the music.
And now, my pieces are more complex and it's really impossible to play them correctly without reading the notes.

In essence, what helped me learn to read was doing it, period... and I'm still learning to do so 2.5 years in.

Thanks for the replies so far

Casintaly - since you could read the treble clef fluenty I would guess you played another instrument before the piano. This must have been a great benefit and a great curse having to think of two clefs instead of the usual one.

Mete - I like your "learning to walk" analogy, it is so true

Bobpickle - thanks for the links, I might attempt Maduro's suggestion of playing Bach Inventions and singing (although my wife has enough to put up with my bad piano playing)

Michael 99 - all that writing - I have heard that writing out music helps us to remember better - by the way I have been dabling with Musescore, a composition and notation program. I sometimes write out short passages of sight reading lessons: I think it helps

I for one am hopeless at sight reading. I`ve done it for years without improvement; my eyesight`s not clever mind. Even when I went to lessons I memorized the work when playing back. So my page didn`t get turned when it should, or at all.

Dunno how I learned to read and write. But I did . . . .Watching good sight readers is like watching touch typists. Makes ya sick . . . .

This skill is very difficult to achieve. Actually you need to be single minded and practice/sight read every day. Take the following steps: start with much easier pieces (1 - 2 grades before your actual grade), do it for 10 minutes at the beginning and then as you feel more confident start increasing the time, don't play more than 8 - 10 bars at the beginning and increase the number as you gain confidence.

It will also help considerably if you use a very interesting method, it is really worth looking at it SightRead4Piano app for iPad SightRead4Piano
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/sightread4piano-by-wessar/id483084741?mt=8

Besides the method the advantage is that music is graded and is coming from 6 examination boards so you know all the time which level you are actually playing: ABRSM, LCM, RIAM, Rockschool, AMEB and Yamaha.

I had excellent results with my students and they also loved it.
The company website is www.sightread4.com

See what you think and perhaps let me know.

I picked up Alfred All-in-One Book 1 and followed it from cover to cover to learn where the notes are, then moved onto the graded series on my own. I was moving myself from piece to piece rather quickly, and my sight reading was getting very strong for a beginner playing grade 1 piano in the first year.

Then, I got a teacher, and I was not allowed to move on to a new piece until I play the piece much better than I ever imagined necessary. By the time I finished a piece, it's basically memorized, and my sight reading abilities stood at a stand still at grade 1 even though I advanced over time to grade 4 and grade 5 piano.

The bottom line, if you read a lot of new music, your sight reading will improve. If you play the same thing over and over, your playing would be better but your sight reading won't.

I suspect for most of us, 1 - 2 grades below is a possible, but difficult, eventual goal but is simply unattainable until you have developed very good reading skills.

I tend to sight read pieces that I suspect are somewhere between grades 1 & 3 but I have learnt pieces of grade 7 or 8 level. I will find that my reading of pieces at a higher level is much better, but to consider it sight reading? Not even close!!!

Ann B., I have read your post, here:

This skill is very difficult to achieve. Actually you need to be single minded and practice/sight read every day. Take the following steps: start with much easier pieces (1 - 2 grades before your actual grade), do it for 10 minutes at the beginning and then as you feel more confident start increasing the time, don't play more than 8 - 10 bars at the beginning and increase the number as you gain confidence.

It will also help considerably if you use a very interesting method, it is really worth looking at it SightRead4Piano app for iPad SightRead4Piano
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/sightread4piano-by-wessar/id483084741?mt=8

Besides the method the advantage is that music is graded and is coming from 6 examination boards so you know all the time which level you are actually playing: ABRSM, LCM, RIAM, Rockschool, AMEB and Yamaha.

I had excellent results with my students and they also loved it.
The company website is www.sightread4.com

See what you think and perhaps let me know.

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Ann, thanks very much for posting an interesting post. As a busy teacher, it is wonderful that you have taken a moment to post on a very interesting post.

I realize that computer technology is at the forefront of the music world. If a poor music student has limited resources, isn't just playing pieces learned everyday and reviewing everyday, the same same thing as sightreading, because you are reading music you are learning on day one and for the rest of your piano journey, you are playing music at your level and your reading ability is commensurate with your playing ability. As a slow learner, I don't understand how special music is any different than the music you play everyday as a piano player. Perhaps you or someone enlightened could explain the difference to a beginner piano player like me. Thank you.

I am a poor sight reader. I tried to learn years ago, got frustrated and gave up on it. More recently have I been spending some time with a sight reading app, and it has gotten me to at least being able to identify the notes, though sometimes with hesitation.

Reading the dots and lines is more like learning a second language with a different character set than some of the other analogies. Some folks are exposed early, some have a high aptitude, some struggle. I struggled. I found TromboneAl's story interesting:
http://pianosightreading.blogspot.com/2008/01/background.html

He was an accomplished musician, and finally decided to learn the dots and lines. There is hope for all of us. However, it took a polished musician playing paid gigs, an hour a day for four years to reach the skill level he wanted to reach. That's an hour a day focusing on sight reading.

Considering that I spend an hour a day total on piano, it might be more like 10 years or more at 10 minutes a day. The other side is that a high aptitude person might reach a high skill level in six months or a year of modest work. I see plenty of these fast burners on the forum that seem to take to the dots and lines like ducks to water. Like learning a foreign language, for some it comes easily, for some it is extremely difficult. There is no knowing without trying, so all should try.

If after some dedicated effort, a person still struggles mightily, there are other roads. Some learn to play by ear, or learn treble clef and use lead sheets with chord names, or learn to write their own music (my chosen path), or improvise. There are also other forms of notation. I learned to read ABC notation which is popular in folk music, and still notate my compositions in that format.

I can add that sight reading is one skill. Ear training, music theory, rhythm work, are sometimes neglected, and these skills are also part of being a well rounded musician.

Anne B. SightRead4Piano is a outstanding app but obviously limited to the Apple world. I would have bought it ages ago only I don't own an IPad. I use PrestoKeys which I think is a great program but cannot be used alone. The old tried and tested method of reading as much as you can in different styles seems to be the best.

Ann B., I have read your post, here:

This skill is very difficult to achieve. Actually you need to be single minded and practice/sight read every day. Take the following steps: start with much easier pieces (1 - 2 grades before your actual grade), do it for 10 minutes at the beginning and then as you feel more confident start increasing the time, don't play more than 8 - 10 bars at the beginning and increase the number as you gain confidence.

It will also help considerably if you use a very interesting method, it is really worth looking at it SightRead4Piano app for iPad SightRead4Piano
https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/sightread4piano-by-wessar/id483084741?mt=8

Besides the method the advantage is that music is graded and is coming from 6 examination boards so you know all the time which level you are actually playing: ABRSM, LCM, RIAM, Rockschool, AMEB and Yamaha.

I had excellent results with my students and they also loved it.
The company website is www.sightread4.com

See what you think and perhaps let me know.

__________________________________________

Ann, thanks very much for posting an interesting post. As a busy teacher, it is wonderful that you have taken a moment to post on a very interesting post.

I realize that computer technology is at the forefront of the music world. If a poor music student has limited resources, isn't just playing pieces learned everyday and reviewing everyday, the same same thing as sightreading, because you are reading music you are learning on day one and for the rest of your piano journey, you are playing music at your level and your reading ability is commensurate with your playing ability. As a slow learner, I don't understand how special music is any different than the music you play everyday as a piano player. Perhaps you or someone enlightened could explain the difference to a beginner piano player like me. Thank you.

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Dear Michel_99,
Sight reading means picking up a music score you have never seen before and just play it continuously. This is beyond what you achieve every day by practicing one piece or the same pieces every day to improve your playing ability.

Sight reading makes people enjoy music and life generally much more. Being able to explore new music permanently is a great skill. Just think that you would not need to worry about stumbles or about what follows next; you would just be able to follow the score, play the music as it comes and enjoy it.

This skill is not impossible to achieve providing you practice in a certain way every day. What you will have to do is to look only ahead, your eyes need to be 4 - 5 bars ahead; never look back.
Then you need to prioritize, the essentials of good sight reading in this order are: continuity, rhythm and pitch.
The SightRead4App app I was telling you about is focusing on training your brain and eyes to look only ahead, thus achieve continuity.
I hope this helps. Good luck with sight reading!