Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Can we kick some people off the Quarterly Recitals already??

but more likely we'll have to face decaying skills.

We love to be reminded thus!!

I've read this thread over a bunch of times. The biggest thought I have is that members here have such a variety of backgrounds, and I'll get back to that. One immediate issue is about true beginners, for whom doing a very first recital is intimidating, and may need a "first recital for true beginners" kind of place - I like what was suggested about that.

I joined this forum shortly after I got a piano a bit over 5 years ago. Because of some complicated reasons involving what had happened before, I didn't dare do much with the piano until I could get with a teacher so I did very few things on piano, and spent most of my time learning theory and music history. Listening to others play when I wasn't really playing made me sad which is why (to answer your question Monika) I'm late in exploring the quarterly recitals. I finally dared post something of mine here for the first time ever, in the April thread. That was a big step. It's not just that I have been working with a teacher on piano for around year now, but also that the notions of it being "dangerous" to do anything on your own was also trashed for good. So if I can play, then I can post in PW, and that made me look at these recitals.

Having come that far, here's this thread. I've been trying to put my finger on what's spooking me. The idea of anyone comparing is one. We're all learning, solving our playing issues etc. so for me everyone's on a personal journey, and we're following that person's growth. I wouldn't want to compare or be compared. The idea makes me uncomfortable. Any idea of "levels" people are at, or categories they're in, ditto. There seems to be this idea floating around that there are these smooth levels like when you have public school, high school and college, where everyone has been streamed through the same system. If I see anything, it might be described as "hotch potch" or "big mess to be sorted out" for a lot of us. If we were all sorted and ready to go, we'd probably be in the Pianist forum.

I don't know how many are in my kind of shoes - meaning all over the map in regards to what they can do. I'm digging myself out of a cement block as far as physical playing is concerned and have one thing sorted out: chords. The piece I put out has two aspects: it's all chords (only one kind of technique to work with), and it's short (lots of time to work on it). "Level" isn't there. I've learned a lot about how to work on music in steps, so I can make it sound nice, but that might mask the physical struggles going on - all the things being sorted out. I think there must be a lot of people who have a mixed bag like this. The ABF is a safe place where we can come with our strengths and weaknesses. I think that the very fact that we are adults and have such hugely different and varied histories, means that everything has to be very individual. I couldn't find the words, but it's something like that.

A couple of comments:

-People compare, it can't be helped. However, I don't think it's bad if it is done in a good light. Like, "I want to be able to play that piece someday" is a positive thing, a motivation or inspiration. Something like, "I'm going to catch up with so-and-so" is not only destructive, but impossible.

-There are no levels, I agree. I know of people on this forum who play beautifully and I enjoy that, even if I play more complicated pieces. There is something of value in anyone's recording, and it's not necessarily all wrapped up in a neat list of skills.

-With the above two things in mind, I think it is productive to not necessarily set limits on who can and can't participate. No money is at stake here, no "winner" is chosen, not even bragging rights for the best performance. Plus, how would you even segregate who can and can't play? Based on years of study? Some people study for a very short amount of time and progress very quickly. Level of piece? What exactly would be considered "intermediate"? Most teachers cannot agree on these levels, so how would anyone be able to for these recitals?

Just some things to think about.

Yes, exactly. The thing I was sensing (hence hard to put into words) was that if a more experienced person plays nicely, that this will make the less experienced person feel bad. ATallGuy, that's what I got when reading your post. That's an uncomfortable feeling on both sides. I like your "in good light" point, Morodiene. How I see it is "What is this person doing to get there, and can I use any of it myself?" (now or eventually).

I"m afraid this new recital will die. Unless it's expanded some.

Although I can understand the OP's point.
It can be taken care of with more support and encouragement from the more experienced players. Make it a point to encourage people obviously less experienced.
I also think the new recital could be more fun. It's not a bad idea.

I think we're beating a dead horse here. As I understand it, both the ranking system for the current recital and the instigation of a new one have been considered and rejected as solutions to the problem (that the idea of taking part in the recital can be intimidating due to the level some people play at, and that therefore, some people don't do it even though they'd like to).

AimeeO proposed something better (an ongoing "first recording" thread), and we pretty much all agreed that was a good idea, fraught with many fewer complications than the other two.

So, Aimee ... we're waiting on you to put your idea into action ...

just curious--why limit a beginner thread to 'first recording'? This seems extremely limiting and will surely make any such thread die out quickly,unless I'm not understanding what is meant by that? why not let people post as many recordings of theirs as they would like, for as long as they would like? A person may still feel beginnerish after a single recording or single piece is what I'm thinking.

Indeed. But if we don't limit it to the first recording, then we're basically just duplicating the Piano Bar, which is casual and open to everyone, and which, by its very nature (a new thread every month, no pre-announcements, no special submissions page, and generally shorter pieces) already signals being less formal and hefty than the quarterly recital. Doesn't it?

We could limit this thread to the first-timers, as a place to stick their toe in, experiment with recording methods, and experience the friendly atmosphere first-hand. And when they show an interest in sharing more, point them to the Bar.

Or not?

I think Saranoya's right - there really are a lot of ways to post one's playing, and this *is* the Adult Beginners Forum. I think what we're addressing here is those folks who haven't convinced themselves that the piano bar and the recital are friendly places even tho our levels of playing have a broad range and many different genres.

But this *is* a friendly place, and the bar and the recitals really *are* welcoming to people of all levels and genres. It's just that, for some people, it's hard to not let the skill level of others overwhelm them. So that drowns out the recordings of the folks who are closer to "beginner" level (whatever that is - don't look at me). So if they can post one recording in a thread which is dedicated to first recordings, and actually experience the friendliness, then maybe they can be encouraged to do the bar and the recitals, and actually believe that it's going to be like that there, too.

From reading about the Mendolson recital, it seems there's a wide range of "levels" in that, too, from some people who are fairly novice, to teachers. All of our stuff here is like that.

So, I *think* the idea is to have a "get your feet wet" place, not a "get your feet in cement" place

Cathy

Oh, and I think that if you want to post your first piece in the bar or the recital, well, do so. There's nothing mandatory about the "first recording" thread - they're all there as opportunities.

Cathy

Exactly!

Thank you, Cathy, for expressing my thoughts better than I did .

Maybe we could retitle our favorite forum to "Beginner and Beyond"

My impression, although it may be wrong, is that the Pianist Corner is for professionals and young students.
Of course the line between amateur and professional may be somewhat vague, but for an amateur without a diploma and with virtually no professional guidance the Pianist Corner doesn't seem to be the right playground. I would really like to see an "Amateur Pianist Forum". After all nobody remains a beginner for unlimited time, and a forum for just adult beginners would have a very limited target group.

Actually, what I try to say is that when looking at the forum titles, there are quite a few of us who do not belong anywhere. I decided not to be to strict about these titles, but if somebody feel offended by my presence and activity I prefer looking for other options and not make more contributions to the recitals.

I'm aware that my present level is at least average amateur level, but when I was a true beginner, I played extremely badly. Therefore I'm generally impressed by what I hear from the less experienced participants at the quarterly recitals.

I guess there's no way to actually cover everyone - to me, the Pianist Corner is almost entirely classically oriented, and pretty serious classical (tho it's not my impression that it's mostly professional and student). And, as I've said, I don't play classical.

So for those whose interest may be serious, but not quite pianist corner, and there are many, and those of us who play other genres recreationally (tho we, too, may be serious) the ABF turns out to be the most broadly welcoming forum.

Works for me.

Cathy

I, too, have always wondered if I should contribute to recitals. I did once and while I didn't experience any issues from it, I was hesitant that it would not be well-received. But I wanted to participate and so I did. I'm doing the Mendelssohn one because it was opened to Piano Forum people so I felt it was OK for that as well. While I'm a teacher, I still consider myself a student and there's always the next thing to learn. I do not perform except to accompany, so for me doing the occasional recital is a means to motivate myself to learn something new to the point of being relatively performable. I think this forum has done well with not letting jealousy or insecurities take over. I am not against having a beginner recital, of course, but it would be very hard to define.

As previously mentioned, this topic comes up perpetually. I purposely didn't say constantly because even if we all decide to just leave things alone [As has always been the case after deep, thorough discussions], it will NOT be a permanent fix. It will only be a temporary fix for the current active members.

As time,(a year or two) go by, the EXACT same problem will reappear as it always has as long as I've been here. (8 years now).

I have seen several cycles of this same problem come and go so please, PLEASE,...let's stop practicing our mistakes!.

If we address this problem once and for all, it will be just that....addressed! it WON'T come back!

So what is the solution? How about we let the facts decide what to do and this time, for once, do it.

The facts:

. The group as a whole does not want to be broken up.
. The true beginners may become intimidated to participate
. Seasoned players don't want to be penalized or excluded

Um, well I think that is it. So let's have a recital that doesn't break up the group as a whole. One that does not exclude/penalize the advanced players while also not intimidating the true beginners.

Sound good so far? good.

So now we can just have our regularly scheduled quarterly recitals which will just have separate headings within it. Something to the effect of 'true Beginners' and 'seasoned beginners' [I'm not stuck on the actual names, just the concept].

This simple, yet effective plan will work. Anyone who has been playing one year or less can [if they want to] go under the true beginner heading/section of the recital. Everyone else goes under the regular beginner/seasoned beginner category.

This plan will work. It is sustainable, and does NOT need to be overcomplicated. Furthermore, there is NO reason why this topic will have to keep coming up again either constantly or perpetually.

Now let's eat!

I'll even enter if you include an Experienced but Hopeless category.

When I joined PW 5 years ago, ABF seemed like the right place for me because I was a returning amateur, getting back into the piano after a 20 year hiatus. I was very excited to find a place where other adults were uncovering old skills while facing adult responsibilities. To my great dismay, I was very quickly and not very politely told that I was "too advanced" for ABF and to please go away. I drifted over to Pianist's Corner, a somewhat more intimidating place but I was made to feel more welcome there. To this day, I rarely visit ABF. When I do, I carefully guard what I say, never refer to the music I am working on and I do not participate in the recitals.

What is my point? The title of the forum says "Beginners". Part of the introduction says "just starting or returning to". If the introduction welcomes me as a returning amateur and the members do not, it's like a smack in the face and it hurts. Make up your mind. Drop the "returning to" or make everyone welcome.

Currently working on:
Chopin Ballade #3
Beethoven Sonata #18 Opus 31, #3
Mozart Sonata #14, K457

It's been awhile since I've been here and *this* thread (a dead horse) is the first thing I see...lol.

I'd have to kind of agree with GoodDog...there was a user here (relatively advanced) who posted a Chopin etude a couple of years back, and received some criticism for being "too advanced" for the ABF recital. I guess whether it's here or the PC, there are critics everywhere.

An intermediate forum is a great idea but it ruins the "big brother" feeling that us adult intermediates have on the true beginners or earlier intermediates. We were once there - whether a true beginner or a returning adult - and we like to encourage the beginners. I still say - let's leave things alone and move on. I hope to participate again soon myself too.

I think a thread of real beginners first recordings (not just the first) would be fantastic.

And for what it's worth.. I've been participating in the recitals from almost the start and have never "compared" playing. Certainly not in a competing fashion. Really. If I were a professional I guess I would but as an amateur I just listen and enjoy, or not. I may hear a piece played really well and wish I could do that but that is a good thing. For instance, Sam S., an excellent player and certainly no "real beginner" played Shumann's Arabesque in the last recital. It inspired me to find the music and try it myself. I would not even think to compare my playing to Sams. That's what is so great about these recitals...they are inspiring.