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My approach has always been this:

1. If I'm considering studying and learning a piece, I first print out some, or all of it from IMSLP.

2. If after a reasonable amount of time I become committed to the piece, I will look for a proper edition at a local store (which unfortunately I almost never find, which is why I usually skip to...)

3. I order a proper edition online.

This works for me, because it allows me some "hands on" time with a piece before I commit to buying a real copy. At least that's how I think of it.

Like I said though, sheet music, especially variety of editions, is almost impossible to come across even in New York. They recently closed Colony, this run-down huge sheet music and audio store in the middle of Times Square. Prices were decent and so was the selection. I'd always try and stop there if I was in the area. Now the only places are Guitar Center and Sam Ash, both of which have an extremely poor selection of sheet music of any kind.

I realize that this thread is primarily about the superior craftsmanship of certain publishers, and their particular editions. To this, I gladly add my voice to the chant “Bravissimi!” It is heartening to hear that some are still not grossly compromising to stay alive.

So, with due apologies for again taking the thread slightly off the beam, we then have this aspect of “quality”:

We DO live in a market economy (nothing new, by the way . . .) We “vote” our preferences with our expenditures. That is precisely why it is so very important to consider WHO is sharing in the profits of the dollars, or euros, or pounds, that we spend on music. Mr. Kreisler phrases it a slightly different way, and the net result is the same. If we, as musicians (both amateur and professional) do not support other musicians, and their music businesses, then they will no longer exist to support us.

Ya’ see, here’s the problem: When one starts focusing on new business plans, market trends, latest fads, time-to-market, volume distribution, bottom lines, and the agility to quickly change direction; then one looses focus on the main things - music and musicians.

And here’s the real potential danger: When we, as musicians, allow the availability of our music, both written and recorded, to rest primarily with marketing professionals, and accountants, and corporate shareholders; and they decide that music no longer pays the high return-on-investment that they need -- what then?

What's even more bizarre on this is that in todays world "You get what you pay for" at large!

This was one of the first things I learned when moving in London (prior to that, living in Greece, I was not only too young or dependant to notice, but also society and the market works in different ways). In London it was crispy clear that the higher priced item is almost always better than the lower priced one! Not taking into account marketing gimmicks and discounts...

But in the end, I think there's still hope. Koji's kickstarter got funded very fine and dandy and all that... Other kickstarter projects get funded and it IS about crowdfunding and attention and promotion. So not everything is without hope: What kickstarter does is that it makes it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR what kind of money is needed to make a CD/recording/Score/whatever. And usually people do understand that. If, however, the same people are just offered the final product, they WILL complain about the price, "free art for free people" and all that crap!

sorry for ranting...

Back on topic now!

EDIT: If there's one comment that made me realize A LOT about myself, it was one that came from a marketing director and advertiser: "Stop being an artist, and be an entrepreneur!" Which is very true and very justifiable.

Still I can't make it happen, so I am looking for other people to help me on that part.

I do not know you, so I can not speculate on what you may or may not choose to purchase. In fairness, I do not have a good idea of what scores currently cost in France. I can tell you that when I was studying orchestral works, I purchased hundreds of full scores, more than half of which I have recently “pruned” out of the library. Most were modern works, and therefore costly. I did not buy them all at once. They took years and years (and YEARS) to accumulate.

I could be reading your post incorrectly, but there seems to be an implication that having a high number of CDs or “sheets” is desirable - the more, the better. I have not found that to be true.

Ed

Well, for instance, Partiels by Gerard Grisey costs about 70€. As a student I can guarantee you that I can't afford it lol And I'm not ordering pizzas three times a week either.
And Grisey is dead so the money is definitely not ending in his pocket (I wonder how much money a composer earns from the sheets of his music that are sold via the traditional way).


I do not care about having a lot of "stuff". I already think I have too much CDs (I don't know all of them well), and haven't read through all my sheets yet.



Otherwise, I use IMSLP the same way as didyougethathing, and I buy the sheets if I'm studying the piece.


Of course I agree that music needs money and financial support to keep going, but I think the music industry is sometimes behaving too much like that, too much like an industry. In France we have an organization (private, I think, but which works for the state) called the SACEM. They're known for, amongst other things, making raids in conservatories.
When you get caught with photocopies, you pay a fine (Ive heard that even with sheet from IMSLP you have to pay a fine if you can't prove that they're from IMSLP, but I'm not sure this is reliable). They do the same with little concerts (of any style).
So, when industry works like that (like a mafia) you do not really want to support it.
Of course I happily buy sheets from editors I trust if I need it, but I don't understand how supporting the music industry is better than supporting iniatives like IMSLP which do a lot for the education of a lot of persons with music.
IMSLP doesn't bother anyone, it just puts online scores in the domain public (sometimes they're out of print too).
And I think it's very healthy because it keeps us from having only the music industry as source for recorded and printed music, which is, as I wrote earlier, very dangerous IMO.

It's a matter of priorities. Maybe people are saving money for a nice instrument, and therefore cut expenses on scores. After all, the score is just printed paper; but the musician with an instrument will make it sound like music.
And a pizza will keep you fed for hours; and if you don't eat, you starve. And unlike music, you can not download food from the Internet.


Maybe live music just is not important to them. Again, priorities. And I don't know how much their wedding cost. And DJs are artists as well.
But I digress. The point is: I believe that people are willing to pay good money if they believe that they get good value for it. And smart businesspeople will know that and provide an offer.

If that was the case, high end piano manufacturers like Steinway or Sauter would be out of business, and Yamaha would only build Clavinovas. I believe that people, especially artists, are willing to pay good money for what they consider valuable. Accountants and shareholders know that.
And anyway: I don't know if IMSLP is run by accountants and shareholders.

Exactly.

I like the Julliard store because when I call they tell me everything. Quality of printing, is the printing easy to read and who is the editor. They often have recommendations thats how I was turned on to Wiener editions. Also they turned me onto buying the Thumer edition of the Pictures at an Exhibition. The student I often speak to is a clarinetist but he also plays piano and has made some great recommendations. The Thumer score for Pictures is from 1914 so I was lucky to find one copy in Germany for 16 dollars in excellent condition. The Thumer edition has great fingering that I feel makes it easier to play for me.

Speaking of pizza and musicians.....

I saw a great quote/joke at the MTNA conference:

What's the difference between a pizza and a musician?

A pizza can feed a family of four!

In many cases.....sad, but true.

This thread including news of a local store closing, prompted me to go to my own local music store yesterday and buy something! Had nothing in mind other than a determination to contribute a bit to its ongoing welfare, as well as add to my basic library, although couldn't think of anything I needed at the moment other than Schubert op. 90... ended up with Lieder ohne Worte, a second volume of Mendelssohn, Chopin's waltzes and scherzos from Dover, Schubert op. 142 instead, and Heller op. 45 studies. (Giving credit where it's due, it was the ongoing ABT recital that interested me in the Mendelssohn!)

We've already had the major local "music store institution" shut down some years ago... its long life and reputation and huge inventory did not help it survive the online competition. Now that the smaller music store has opened to fill the gap (and is struggling as well) I want to do what I can to keep it from going under. Customer goodwill seems to be a flimsy foundation for business success, though.

I try to patronize my local store, but it's getting harder. The most recent piece of music I ordered -- last fall -- has not yet come in. I've since bought it elsewhere, but my local store (reasonably) requires advance payment for special orders. So I've paid twice over for this music.

I have a couple of pieces of music in mind that I want to get next, but I'm really unsure if I want to go through my local store and the exasperation of potentially waiting and waiting and waiting for music to come in, or perhaps it never comes in.

What seems to cause the delay is an inability to get music from their distributors. I don't know what it takes for a music store to have a more reliable distributor network or relationship, but I wish my local store could find out. Maybe the distributors have just hung all local stores out to dry and are making their money supplying online ordering.

There's another bricks and mortar store in another state with which I have connected, which is willing to ship, doesn't require advance payment for special orders, and the owner has a lot of expertise, so I'm considering transferring my ordering allegiance there, much as it pains me in principle to not order locally. At least I'll still be helping to preserve a bricks and mortar store for that city that provides outstanding service and, when I'm in the area, browsing.

I'm not sure that it's reasonable to require advance payment for special orders from a loyal customer!

Plus if they can't deliver, they can't deliver, that's it!

I'm sorry that I'm so harsh, but I've had a similar issue with a computer software that annoyed me to no end:

A couple of years ago, while preparing slowly to launch EMF, I changed from windows xp to windows 7 and Finale 2010 wouldn't work. So I was forced to order finale 2012. The local supplier told me on the phone that he requires the money in advance, the next day. Due to personal matters I failed to give the money and called yet the day after, when he told me that he orders once a month (!!!) and I'd have to call back next month!

I ended up ordering online from Cyprus which was shipped the same day to me!

The Greek shop has closed down for quite some time now, and everybody has complaints!

Bravo!

Well said, and sadly true.

PianoStudent88 and I have dialogued about this previously, and the uncharacteristically poor service ( from store, or distributor, or even publisher ) is all part of that sickening downward spiral in which these music organizations find themselves.
[1] Way too many folks are irrationally in love with purchasing stuff “on line”.
[2] Without a fairly loyal customer base, the real music store loses income.
[3] No one wants to continue running a business that loses money.
[4] The music store looks for ways to cut expenses.
[5] Employing less knowledgeable and skilled individuals provides an immediate cost savings.
[6] Reducing on-hand inventory provides another cost savings.
[7] Fewer real musicians find value in the store because of #5 and #6 and ???. The customer base erodes even further.
[8] The distributor notices that its stores are not ordering the volume they once did.
[9] The distributor looks for ways to cut expenses.
[10] Employing less knowledgeable and skilled individuals provides an immediate cost savings. (Oops! I already said that.)
[11] Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. . . .

What can be done to break the cycle? Go back to the “beginning” - #1 and #2 - just as cefinow and
PianoStudent88 have and do. Shake hands with, and look into the eyes of those who support us as musicians. With our dollars, or euros, or pounds, VOTE to keep music stores open, and maybe even nearby.

Please do not misunderstand my intention. There is absolutely nothing wrong with ordering from The Juilliard Book Store BY CALLING THEM. Equally, I would not hesitate to do business with an organization like Musica Ferrum, because I know that the value in my expenditure is reaching someone who supports music and musicians.

#6, reducing inventory, has hit my local music store. I was there today. They're keeping the method books, but other than that I didn't see any piano music at all, and all the sheet music, music books and scores for other instruments are on sale for 50% off.

The store also sells keyboards, guitars and instrument supplies (e.g. guitar strings), rents band instruments and offers music lessons. I hope this is enough for them to stay in business.

Some places are "closing themselves" without even realizing it!

So here you go: Bill Dobbins heads up the Jazz Department at Eastman. He has authored a couple of "how to . . ." books that I would like to purchase and read. I telephone Tammy at the Eastman Book Store, and they do not have either publication on the shelf, but can order both.

[NOTE that at this point, I have a choice - (1) I can ask Tammy to order these books, wait for them to arrive at the Bookstore, arrange for payment, and then have them shipped to me - OR - (2) I can use the ubiquitous “on-line” method, and get them almost immediately from 10+ different and varied sources.]

Since I am going to be in Rochester in the near future, and especially for all the other reasons I have harped upon in this thread, I ask Tammy to order Dobbins’ publications for me. Nikolas will be pleased to hear that there is no pre-payment nonsense involved. The books arrive at the store, and Tammy TELEPHONES ME (You folks remember the concept of “customer service”, don’t you?) She holds them until I come to pick them up. I arrive at the Bookstore, browse for a bit, enjoy a nice conversation with a fellow musician, pay for my purchases, and leave as a very satisfied customer.

A perfect scenario, right? Well, not 100%. You see, the primary message printed on the shopping bag holding my newly purchased books is this: Buy your text books on-line, and save . . .