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Re: Shank Center Pin Friction [Re: Olek] #2067114
04/19/13 12:56 PM
04/19/13 12:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,035
Michigan
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kpembrook Offline
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Michigan
Originally Posted by Olek
I am sure the resiliency of the cloth have a tonal role as a chock adbsorber.


Yes, it absorbs energy that would otherwise be transmitted into the string.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
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Re: Shank Center Pin Friction [Re: kpembrook] #2067122
04/19/13 01:07 PM
04/19/13 01:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
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Olek Offline
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Olek  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
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France
Originally Posted by kpembrook
Originally Posted by Olek
I am sure the resiliency of the cloth have a tonal role as a chock adbsorber.


Yes, it absorbs energy that would otherwise be transmitted into the string.


Well, certainly no ! When you hammer a nail, it is not good to keep a rigid wrist at impact moment... Pfeiffer noticed that on the linked key level, it adbsorb energy to have the parts retained.

But what I suspect is that the impact is more reflected in the action, hence that raise of the tonal power mostly at impact, not a milisecond later as it is the case with usual centers. So the part of tone I use for tuning is not enghanced...


Professional of the profession.
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Re: Shank Center Pin Friction [Re: Olek] #2067126
04/19/13 01:17 PM
04/19/13 01:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
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Olek Offline
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France
Originally Posted by Olek
Originally Posted by kpembrook
Originally Posted by Olek
I am sure the resiliency of the cloth have a tonal role as a chock adbsorber.


Yes, it absorbs energy that would otherwise be transmitted into the string.


Well, certainly no ! When you hammer a nail, it is not good to keep a rigid wrist at impact moment... Pfeiffer noticed that on the linked key level, it adbsorb energy to have the parts retained.

But what I suspect is that the impact is more reflected in the action, hence that raise of the tonal power mostly at impact, not a milisecond later as it is the case with usual centers. So the part of tone I use for tuning is not enghanced...


A friend was so enthusiastic with his zero friction centers, in the end the pianowas not giving control. He changed the shanks.


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Re: Shank Center Pin Friction [Re: Olek] #2067163
04/19/13 02:43 PM
04/19/13 02:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,035
Michigan
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kpembrook Offline
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Michigan
Quote
A friend was so enthusiastic with his zero friction centers, in the end the pianowas not giving control. He changed the shanks.


Yes, zero friction probably would not be good. Less than what felt requires might. Solid bushing always provide the option of higher friction. Felt does not provide a realistic option of lower friction.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Shank Center Pin Friction [Re: kpembrook] #2067388
04/20/13 12:00 AM
04/20/13 12:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18
Louisiana
Mario Igrec Offline
Junior Member
Mario Igrec  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18
Louisiana
Hi Keith,

Nothing is absolutely rigid, but you are right, cloth bushings have give and hard bushings have much less give or they would be noisy (remember teflon bushings?). I haven't done any direct measurements or hi-speed camera research, but it makes sense to me that the shank pinning needs to provide some damping to prevent the shank, especially when loaded with a heavy hammer, from bouncing too much. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has experience in this area.

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