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#2065927 - 04/17/13 09:38 AM Price for a new Bosendorfer?  
Joined: Apr 2013
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twitchypinkies Offline
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Specifically, how much of a discount (if any) can I negotiate off of the Larry Fine SMP? I've narrowed down my choices to a 214 (SMP $127k) and a 225 (SMP $144k). Slightly older Bosies seem to go for much, much less.

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#2066194 - 04/17/13 07:23 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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Silverwood Pianos Offline
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Vancouver B. C. Canada

If price is the only concern then consider another make.


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
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"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
#2066209 - 04/17/13 08:02 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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PianoWorksATL Offline
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Atlanta, GA
Dealers for all piano brands set their own prices. If you've gotten as far as Larry Fine's SMP, then you may have read the additional suggestions related to available discounts.

The market for high-end used can be perilous or rewarding. We've consulted with 2 people in the last month who purchased used Bösendorfer pianos online that arrived needing repairs in excess of $25k. These once great instruments were victims of poor environment or piano hatchet men that have no business handling fine pianos. Another customer we know spent almost 2 years to win a $20k judgment against a seller of a used Blüthner (at least they won - this was 4 months ago). They are not all bad deals, of course, but you really need help and trust before looking to internet listings as a reference.

Bösendorfer is a rare and special instrument. I hope you and your dealer can come to an agreement.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
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#2066279 - 04/17/13 11:30 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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BobInAZ Offline
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No clue how much you discount you can get on a Bosendorfer. I suspect there are not that many buyers at that price point but also suspect that those that are might not be bargaining? No harm offering something lower.

Good luck and happy playing!

Bob


Kawai RX-2 Blak
Casio PX-350
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#2066312 - 04/18/13 12:48 AM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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Schubertslieder Offline
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Michigan, USA
Welcome and wish you the best with your piano purchase.

I agree with PianoWorksATL on his view about the high-end used pianos, as I am always confused about the high price tag attached to the high-end used pianos. I bought mine new to eliminate the confusion.

I hope I didn't confuse you and good luck.


Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces
#2066544 - 04/18/13 01:08 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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Thrill Science Offline
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I bought a new 225 last year from Yamaha Peninsula. (Here's the unboxing) There was a bit of a discount. I didn't negotiate further, except on the trade-in (A C-7).

Good luck! You won't regret it.


Last edited by Thrill Science; 04/18/13 01:09 PM.

Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.
#2066766 - 04/18/13 09:37 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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j&j Offline
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Southwest
How fortunate to be shopping in that price range. The strong recommendation on the Forum is to always get a trusted, reliable, independent piano tech to completely inspect any used piano. If you're looking to buy a used Bosie, or any high end piano, the thorough inspection by an independent tech is worth every penny.

Good luck and keep us posted,

BTW: I'm ultra-green with envy!


J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso
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#2066789 - 04/18/13 10:16 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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ishaxe Offline
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I hope you and your dealer can come to an agreement.[Linked Image]

#2067707 - 04/20/13 05:01 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: ishaxe]  
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frida11 Offline
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April 2011 I bought a brand new Bosendorfer 214 Conservatory series from a very good dealer. I paid less than half of the price you are talking about. Prices for many other new Bosendorfer 214 models in the shop ranged up to $15,000 more than I paid, but were still far less than $80,000.

#2067721 - 04/20/13 05:43 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: frida11]  
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BobInAZ Offline
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Originally Posted by frida11
April 2011 I bought a brand new Bosendorfer 214 Conservatory series from a very good dealer. I paid less than half of the price you are talking about. Prices for many other new Bosendorfer 214 models in the shop ranged up to $15,000 more than I paid, but were still far less than $80,000.


Wow!

Bob


Kawai RX-2 Blak
Casio PX-350
#2067740 - 04/20/13 06:36 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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Stevester Offline
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New Jersey
If I were in the market for a new Bosendorfer I would call Rich at Cunningham Piano in Philadelphia.


"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

anon
#2067751 - 04/20/13 07:04 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: frida11]  
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pianoloverus Offline
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Originally Posted by frida11
April 2011 I bought a brand new Bosendorfer 214 Conservatory series from a very good dealer. I paid less than half of the price you are talking about. Prices for many other new Bosendorfer 214 models in the shop ranged up to $15,000 more than I paid, but were still far less than $80,000.
Boesendorfer SMP prices have increased quite a bit since early 2011. The SMP for the 6'7" Conservatory model was 83.7K in the fall of 2011 while the regular 6'7" model had an SMP of 101.7K. So in 2011 an actual selling price for a 6'7" of less than half of the 127K mentioned in the OP is not so surprising.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 04/20/13 07:14 PM.
#2067879 - 04/21/13 06:03 AM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: pianoloverus]  
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Thrill Science Offline
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California
And, the Conservatory 214 is meant to be the "budget" line. (I'm not really sure what the difference is other than the finish.)


Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.
#2067966 - 04/21/13 11:07 AM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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frida11 Offline
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Pacific Northwest
As far as I know, the Conservatory Series differs only in the finish. The inner workings of the piano are the same as other models. I still think I got a good deal on one for under $50,000. Prices have changed a lot in 2 years, or maybe I was just in the right place and the right time. Anyway, I love the piano and play it several hours every day. And it seems to hold its tune really well. My other piano always needed tuning 4 times/year, and the Bosie far less often.

#2067973 - 04/21/13 11:22 AM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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Almaviva Offline
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There is a website called "Blue Book of Pianos", which contains a listing of the "invoice selling price" of most new pianos. This "invoice selling price" is supposedly the price a manufacturer or distributor would sell to a grade school, college/university, conservatory, etc. They are almost always lower than the SMP. I don't know whether a dealer would agree to selling to an individual at invoice prices, but there is no harm in trying.

Here is the link:
http://bluebookofpianos.com/pin.html

Good luck.

#2067980 - 04/21/13 11:39 AM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: Almaviva]  
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pianoloverus Offline
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New York City
Originally Posted by Almaviva
There is a website called "Blue Book of Pianos", which contains a listing of the "invoice selling price" of most new pianos. This "invoice selling price" is supposedly the price a manufacturer or distributor would sell to a grade school, college/university, conservatory, etc. They are almost always lower than the SMP. I don't know whether a dealer would agree to selling to an individual at invoice prices, but there is no harm in trying.

Here is the link:
http://bluebookofpianos.com/pin.html

Good luck.
That site is almost always extremely inaccurate, out of date(if it was ever up to date?), and full of misleading ideas.

Of course the prices for institutions are lower than the SMP. The prices for individuals are also virtually always less than the SMP. In the PB there is a very clearly written explanation of SMP and how it can used to estimate actual selling price. It's a shame that Fine has done such a careful explanation of pricing but some people don't read it even though he reminds readers to do this on every page where he lists SMP!

I checked the prices in the Bluebook for Mason Hamlin and they were greater than the SMP in the PB. This makes that site's claim that these are the prices paid by institutions completely ridiculous. The SMP is less than the "invoice price"(at least for Masons) and both individuals and institutions almost always pay less than SMP, sometimes significantly less. I also checked Steinway prices and the Bluebook says the model M is less expensive than the model S. Nonsensical.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 04/21/13 12:19 PM.
#2068029 - 04/21/13 01:22 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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Stevester Offline
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Stevester  Offline
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New Jersey
It is my understanding the older CS series were double strung. Still 50K for a new 214CS is a very good price as far as I am concerned, wish I had seen that in 2009.

I would be careful chasing bargains. I did that for a number of years with no luck. I finally went into my local Steinway dealer who also sells Yamaha and I bought a new C3 for what I thought was a fair price. It has certainly matured into a very nice piano and I am very happy with it. I had my heart set on a new M&H for years but I just could not get what I wanted. The moral of my story was visit every dealer you can, even the ones some think are the high end dealers where you won't be able to do business because just maybe you will.


"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

anon
#2068032 - 04/21/13 01:29 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: Stevester]  
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BobInAZ Offline
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Originally Posted by Stevester
It is my understanding the older CS series were double strung. Still 50K for a new 214CS is a very good price as far as I am concerned, wish I had seen that in 2009.

I would be careful chasing bargains. I did that for a number of years with no luck. I finally went into my local Steinway dealer who also sells Yamaha and I bought a new C3 for what I thought was a fair price. It has certainly matured into a very nice piano and I am very happy with it. I had my heart set on a new M&H for years but I just could not get what I wanted. The moral of my story was visit every dealer you can, even the ones some think are the high end dealers where you won't be able to do business because just maybe you will.


Excellent advice! Or at least it is similar to what I did so it must be right. smile.

I do know that I will be much better prepared if we ever buy our second piano.

Bob


Kawai RX-2 Blak
Casio PX-350
#2068312 - 04/21/13 11:11 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: Stevester]  
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Derulux Offline
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Philadelphia
Originally Posted by Stevester
If I were in the market for a new Bosendorfer I would call Rich at Cunningham Piano in Philadelphia.

You beat me to it.. it is definitely worth the call.


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#2069947 - 04/24/13 12:08 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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twitchypinkies Offline
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Thank you for your posts. They have helped me think through this purchase. I probably would have preferred to hear something like "I got my Bosie 214 last week and paid $80k" but I greatly value your input.

I thought shopping for a piano would be like buying a new car – same rough price range, going to showrooms and talking to dealers, going on test drives, etc. A bit confusing at the start but then you come up with some evaluative rubric and zero in on your choice and order it in your favorite color. There’s wiggle room on price but not a great deal because you can group cars into cohorts of fungibility within which pricing is roughly equal.

Actually, it’s more like buying a house, and not just because the prices were much higher than I’d naively anticipated. Reason and practicality factor into it but they take a back seat to emotional response. The decision is steeped in the anticipation of the hoped-for years of enjoyment ahead. The purchase feels monumental – like this isn’t just a possession, but an extension of myself, something that defines me and that shapes my experience of life. There are bargains out there, but at the same time the emotional buyer will pay a premium to get something that has that little undefinable bit of extra.

#2069952 - 04/24/13 12:22 PM Re: Price for a new Bosendorfer? [Re: twitchypinkies]  
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Stevester Offline
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New Jersey
Just visit all the dealers you can, even the ones that supposedly have the crazy prices, you just never know, much like buying a house.


"The true character of a man can be determined by witnessing what he does when no one is watching".

anon

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