Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?

So it's easy because someone says so on the internet. Perhaps we should learn how to play in 5 by visiting ehow/expert village.

Funny! Not to contradict you ... but I think the best new tuner/technicians got their training at Woolworth's. (Hmmm ... will anyone here recognize such an old-school reference?)

I did tuning myself with 53 ys the first time and the result was OK. Took one whole day and my friend revised it next day with minor adjustments in the deep bass.

Him took the whole tuning process 1 hr...

(He is a piano technician).

Thanks for the instructions on how to respond to your questions. I've had no problems with the inexpensive Yamaha digital that I've been playing almost daily for the last six years. I feel the reliability of digital pianos is well proven. I've seen them bought, sold, traded, loaned, tossed into the back of trucks, dropped down stairs, spilled on, walked on by a two year old, and they keep working.

Keep in mind that acoustic pianos need servicing. Regular tuning and repair averages $200-$300 per year. Extend that out ten years and you've paid a good portion of the cost of a digital.

Owning both a digital and an acoustic is very common. I don't know if there are statistics, but I would guess that it is well over 80% who have both. Can we ever have too many musical instruments in the house?

How did you get the new main board from Kawai, did they mail it to you or did you have to drive down to Kawai? And if you did drive down to Kawai, tell me how many miles was your one way trip and did you have to go back on a separate date to pick up your piano? Or was a Kawai technician sent to your residence? Give us some details to the story, in particular about Kawai's response.

The reason I'm asking this is because for my terminal "please wait" issue on the AP-620, I have to drive 2 hours round trip to an authorized repair center, leave it at the repair shop for them to diagnose then they order a part, then after they repair it and burn in, I would have to again drive 2 hours round trip it pick it up. All of this is not my fault and I don't want to suffer through this again in particular after my DP runs out of warranty. It's currently in warranty but I feel that Casio has pushed this ridiculous work onto me. They refuse to send out a tech or even mail me the main board. I mean, what else could it be besides the main board. It's not rocket science.

How did you botch up your firmware? I'm curious.. cuz it either works or won't work. Typically, the firmware software would let you know the condition of the piano and whether it's appropriate before it launches the firmware file. How was it your fault unless you had electrical failure at the time of update or that you tripped over some wires.

I wasn't expecting fatal errors such as the infinite "Please wait" error on the casio AP-620. Since I'm not the only one who has this issue in addition to other Casio model, this has really scared me a bit. I just didn't expect it. A crash here and there or freeze is okay, but a terminal infinite "please wait" is not acceptable. Any terminal software bug due to programming or chip failure like this that has a pattern is not acceptable.

Bad luck? What I found appears that Casio has a pattern of the same sort of fatal errors across models:


two "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca...iews/reviews.htm?sort=rating&dir=asc

one "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca...iews/reviews.htm?sort=rating&dir=asc

LINKS FIXED:

http://www.justanswer.com/electroni...-privia-px-330-keyboard-worked-fine.html

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/56-casio-ap-620-boot-up-problem/

http://www.fixya.com/support/t385410-re_casio_wk_3000_musical_keyboard_only

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-AP620-C..._cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I'd like to know about other brands as well. Because of the above, I don't think it's "bad luck" as it is either a bad design / bug / or QA of the components either Flash rom or something. I've gotten very scared of DP because of this experience.


Update: I will need to find and fix the links. Above are two costco links that are fixed.

In digitals, just as in acoustics, there are good brands and there are bad brands. Some companies support their products for many many years after they are discontinued. Some companies don't like to provide service after the warranty expires and expect you to replace the unit.

Tuning an acoustic piano is not as easy as some people may say. At least, not in my experience. I have tried it and have some very good tuning tools, but it is not easy and I expect I would have to work at it pretty hard to get it right, perhaps over the course of a couple years.

Being that I work on digitals and organs, I am not going to "kiss and tell", but there is a difference in brands. In the <$1000 market there are brands I would not touch with a 10 foot pole.

Thank you Ken.

Ken, Thanks for admitting that tuning an acoustic piano isn't easy. It normally takes ~ 10 yrs of full time work to become a competent Tuner/Tech. With or without the aid of an ETD.

pianoworldanon,

First, I'm sorry you're having trouble with your AP-620. I'll do my best to help you get it resolved. Feel free to contact me in a Private Message here on the forum.

I just clicked on your links. 3 out of 5 go to empty pages, so I'm not sure specifically what you're trying to show but the links don't work. The WK-3000 you're linking to hasn't been made in over 10+ years.

The AP-620 has been quite a successful product. I've seen the same posts here on PianoWorld as on Amazon and the Casio forum about the "Please Wait" issue on some AP-620's. Considering how many AP-620's have been sold, I'm quite certain we don't have a problem but regardless we support the Celviano and Privia digital pianos with a 3 year warranty.

In addition to Casio's direct support numbers, I read the forums here as much as possible so if someone they can reach to directly to me in a private message. I sent you a message I hope to hear from you.

Hi Mike, I've fixed the links:
Here's the Costco reviews.. just search for "please wait"

two "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca...iews/reviews.htm?sort=rating&dir=asc

one "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca...iews/reviews.htm?sort=rating&dir=asc

LINKS FIXED:

http://www.justanswer.com/electroni...-privia-px-330-keyboard-worked-fine.html

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/56-casio-ap-620-boot-up-problem/

http://www.fixya.com/support/t385410-re_casio_wk_3000_musical_keyboard_only

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-AP620-C..._cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

On another thread, I've heard about you mentioning that in-home service is part of the warranty? Is this true?? And under what condition? I ask this pointed question because when I called Casio Repair, I'm told specifically I must haul this piano in. If this is not true and / or is a new policy, I'd like to know.

The big concern started when I called Casio then found out that for California, 9 out of 10 authorized repair station centers around LA, and then even the closest one to where I live, in San Jose, will require two round trip drives on separate days which will total 4 hour drive.


http://www.casio-usa.com/support/musicservicecenters#CA

I can't imagine what would happen for other users who experience similar or same electrical issue. Casio should have in-house service for these QA / Design issue. You've mentioned that the The WK-3000 is 10+ years old, yet the AP-620 have the same error and sympton, which lead me to believe that there's a design issue. I don't know if this is a battery issue or not, but I'm told that I'm not allowed to open the piano where it would void the warranty. If it is a battery issue, then maybe casio can have a diagram where it teaches users how to open it after the warranty period. Mine is still in warranty, but I'm told that if the battery does exist, then it would still die after about 8 years. The back of the piano has screws to the wood that is staple gunned on the buttom. I'm not sure if the top piece can easily be remove to get at the battery, but should the battery die after 8 years, I would like to repair it. This piano is less than 2 years old.

The other issue is that for people who live far away from LA or San Jose in California, Casio will void the warranty even if Casio were to send the board for self repair. If digital pianos are as reliable as they are, then casio shouldn't be afraid of taking in the cost to send out in-house service for issues that are not a fault of the users. I believe Kawai does this from what I've read as they only have one main service center, so likewise, Kawai can't expect people to drive down to their only service center.

Therefore, I think piano companies should make pianos easy to open and replace parts (and agree that it'll still be in warranty after a user-instructed-repair AND / OR send in-house service rather than having customers drive many hours and a minimum of two round trips to service something like this. For those customers who had the fatal "please wait" error that won't go away, I can't imagine how angry they are. I've also heard independently from a piano repair shop that customers are NOT allowed to buy the boards after the warranty period is over for certain brands? This is what got me VERY worried about buying digital pianos. That $1300 is not easy money for some families, and I can't afford to be forced into "upgrading" or buying another one. Even if this board is replaced during the warranty period, I'm still very nervous about it happening again because there are patterns and linkage to old models that have the same issue. If this is really just a battery issue, then casio should keep track and give precise instructions on how to remedy before / after warranty. This should be Standard Operating Procedure. The current standing policy at Casio is that even if Casio agrees to ship me the board and in install it, the fact that if I were to open the piano, it would void the warranty, thus, so far, I must bring this thing in.

I guess many people don't know that there is a battery in digital pianos that will go off in about 8 or so years, which will prevent saving settings. This sort of stuff should also be in the manual. I'm sure many people are not technically savy to know about these sort of stuff, and thus, another call in for repair / board swap or upgrade? That's not honest, and this applies to all companies that don't announce this sort of issue that can be anticipated with virtual certainty.

For my piano, I'm told it's not a battery issue.

The Please Wait issue seems to be a boot problem similar to what happens when a computer doesn't post. Perhaps the internal boot rom is corrupt. If the ROM chip can be replaced, it would seem like an easy fix. Looks like the issue isn't isolated to just one model.

I agree.

[Edited]

With the greatest respect, you have made a habit of doing precisely this for every instrument you have purchased - be it a Roland, Casio, or Kawai.

James
x

Pianoworldanon, since you're posting the same thing on multiple threads, I'll post my same comment here:

I have reached out to you privately to try to help you with your situation. I needed some basic information from you, like where you bought your Casio, your product serial number and specifically who at Casio you've been in touch with. You've told me that you don't want to tell me these things.

Clearly there is a breakdown in communication at Casio which I am trying to correct. I am trying to help you. Without information from you, I can't seem to figure out where you're getting this incorrect information. Casio will provide IN HOME WARRANTY REPAIR for Celviano products. This also includes large Privia models like PX-850. As the General Manager of the division, I'm quite certain what I am talking about.

If you'd like to provide me with this information, I'd personally make an effort to get your AP-620 up and running again. I also believe that there are adjustments to the the velocity curve and the brightness setting that will make you significantly happier with your AP-620.

PV88,
I personally came to your home and spent hours. Other Casio employees have been to your home. We replaced your AP-620 and your old one was brought back to Casio HQ where it has been played and played. Never while I was at your home were we able to duplicate for me. Never have we duplicated it with your old AP-620 which sits in a room down the hall from my office and gets played often. I believe you provided me with a recording where one note sounded out after everything else. That could be caused by a problem with the sustain or more likely the middle pedal, the sostenuto which you could be inadvertently playing, there could be other reasons but a recording is not enough to go on. I asked for other backup, including MIDI data from the AP-620 using its own built in recorder, we've never received that. Only a GarageBand file which unfortunately does not provide a way to actually see all the MIDI data that the AP-620 produces. If you can duplicate it, I'll come to your house again to see it and if its true we'll get to the heart of the issue. We stand by our products.

With reference to pianoworldanon Mike, why bother?

People like this will NEVER be happy! The best thing that can happen for Casio is that he gets rid of his AP620 and moves on to harass another unsuspecting manufacturer (on a public forum). You've only got to read the first post in this thread with him barking out orders about how his question can or cannot be answered to know that he is just going to be completely unreasonable. The moment you got in touch privately and made the kind offer you have of getting this sorted for him he should've stopped all this whinging and publicly acknowledged that you are looking after him and his piano's problem.

If the head of a large company sent me personal messages offering assistance or came to my home to respond to a problem I would give them kudos for doing so and I would praise them from the rooftops. Some people are never happy Mike...

[Edited]

I'll give you the serial number in a private message. SO, it's official that Casio Keyboards have IN HOUSE warranty from MIKE. THEREFORE, is someone has problem with their CASIO and their center tells them to drive multiple hours, contact MIKE. I would hope Mike can straighten the customer service reps out when people call.