2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
52 members (1957, 36251, bobrunyan, Burkey, Beowulf, 15 invisible), 444 guests, and 486 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
pianoworldanon #2060410 04/06/13 01:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 20
R
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by pianoworldanon
Originally Posted by R Jay
Originally Posted by pianoworldanon
and then learn to tune the piano myself with the free tuning software and online tutorial. It's not hard to do at all.


You are joking, right?
If you can afford a decent acoustic then get one (but the reliability or otherwise of a DP would be way down my list of reasons) but make sure you get it tuned by a professional.


It is easy to tune a piano:
http://frugalberry.com/tune-your-own-piano/

And it's not that difficult to even replace other parts if necessary:
http://frugalberry.com/replacing-piano-tuning-pins/

I've thought about it.



So it's easy because someone says so on the internet. Perhaps we should learn how to play in 5 by visiting ehow/expert village.


Nord Piano 2, EV ZXA1 x2, Allen and Heath ZED 10FX, Roland VK7, Kawai KG-2C
(ad)
Sweetwater Gifts That Rock
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
R Jay #2060438 04/06/13 03:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,663
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,663
Funny! smile
Originally Posted by R Jay
So it's easy because someone says so on the internet. Perhaps we should learn how to play in 5 by visiting ehow/expert village.
Not to contradict you ... but I think the best new tuner/technicians got their training at Woolworth's. (Hmmm ... will anyone here recognize such an old-school reference?) smile

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
R Jay #2060453 04/06/13 03:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 424
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 424
I did tuning myself with 53 ys the first time and the result was OK. Took one whole day and my friend revised it next day with minor adjustments in the deep bass.

Him took the whole tuning process 1 hr...

(He is a piano technician).

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
pianoworldanon #2060556 04/06/13 09:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,643
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,643
Thanks for the instructions on how to respond to your questions. I've had no problems with the inexpensive Yamaha digital that I've been playing almost daily for the last six years. I feel the reliability of digital pianos is well proven. I've seen them bought, sold, traded, loaned, tossed into the back of trucks, dropped down stairs, spilled on, walked on by a two year old, and they keep working.

Keep in mind that acoustic pianos need servicing. Regular tuning and repair averages $200-$300 per year. Extend that out ten years and you've paid a good portion of the cost of a digital.

Owning both a digital and an acoustic is very common. I don't know if there are statistics, but I would guess that it is well over 80% who have both. Can we ever have too many musical instruments in the house?



"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
gvfarns #2060621 04/07/13 02:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by gvfarns
I have never had a spontaneous electronic failure, but I did botch a firmware update on my Kawai MP8 one time and the piano started making jibberish sounds when I played. Trying to reflash did not work. Had to replace the main board.

I suppose it doesn't count because it wasn't a reliability issue as much as a user error issue.

For the most part you don't see software or electronic problems in DP's before they are obsolete and get replaced voluntarily.


How did you get the new main board from Kawai, did they mail it to you or did you have to drive down to Kawai? And if you did drive down to Kawai, tell me how many miles was your one way trip and did you have to go back on a separate date to pick up your piano? Or was a Kawai technician sent to your residence? Give us some details to the story, in particular about Kawai's response.

The reason I'm asking this is because for my terminal "please wait" issue on the AP-620, I have to drive 2 hours round trip to an authorized repair center, leave it at the repair shop for them to diagnose then they order a part, then after they repair it and burn in, I would have to again drive 2 hours round trip it pick it up. All of this is not my fault and I don't want to suffer through this again in particular after my DP runs out of warranty. It's currently in warranty but I feel that Casio has pushed this ridiculous work onto me. They refuse to send out a tech or even mail me the main board. I mean, what else could it be besides the main board. It's not rocket science.

How did you botch up your firmware? I'm curious.. cuz it either works or won't work. Typically, the firmware software would let you know the condition of the piano and whether it's appropriate before it launches the firmware file. How was it your fault unless you had electrical failure at the time of update or that you tripped over some wires.

I wasn't expecting fatal errors such as the infinite "Please wait" error on the casio AP-620. Since I'm not the only one who has this issue in addition to other Casio model, this has really scared me a bit. I just didn't expect it. A crash here and there or freeze is okay, but a terminal infinite "please wait" is not acceptable. Any terminal software bug due to programming or chip failure like this that has a pattern is not acceptable.


Last edited by pianoworldanon; 04/07/13 02:43 AM.
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
CarloPiano #2060623 04/07/13 02:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by CarloPiano
.

Regarding the main topic, I think the OP's piano's failure is just a bad luck issue. IMHO is an isolated case that may not be used as an argument for the acoustic vs digital preference.


Bad luck? What I found appears that Casio has a pattern of the same sort of fatal errors across models:


two "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca...iews/reviews.htm?sort=rating&dir=asc

one "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca...iews/reviews.htm?sort=rating&dir=asc

LINKS FIXED:

http://www.justanswer.com/electroni...-privia-px-330-keyboard-worked-fine.html

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/56-casio-ap-620-boot-up-problem/

http://www.fixya.com/support/t385410-re_casio_wk_3000_musical_keyboard_only

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-AP620-C..._cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

I'd like to know about other brands as well. Because of the above, I don't think it's "bad luck" as it is either a bad design / bug / or QA of the components either Flash rom or something. I've gotten very scared of DP because of this experience.


Update: I will need to find and fix the links. Above are two costco links that are fixed.

Last edited by pianoworldanon; 04/15/13 03:21 PM.
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
pianoworldanon #2060643 04/07/13 04:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,685
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,685
In digitals, just as in acoustics, there are good brands and there are bad brands. Some companies support their products for many many years after they are discontinued. Some companies don't like to provide service after the warranty expires and expect you to replace the unit.

Tuning an acoustic piano is not as easy as some people may say. At least, not in my experience. I have tried it and have some very good tuning tools, but it is not easy and I expect I would have to work at it pretty hard to get it right, perhaps over the course of a couple years.

Being that I work on digitals and organs, I am not going to "kiss and tell", but there is a difference in brands. In the <$1000 market there are brands I would not touch with a 10 foot pole.


Ken

Hammond Organ Technician
Piano Torturer
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
Ken Knapp #2060828 04/07/13 02:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
Thank you Ken.

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
pianoworldanon #2061522 04/08/13 08:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,643
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,643
Ken, Thanks for admitting that tuning an acoustic piano isn't easy. It normally takes ~ 10 yrs of full time work to become a competent Tuner/Tech. With or without the aid of an ETD.


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
pianoworldanon #2061529 04/08/13 08:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 470
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 470
pianoworldanon,

First, I'm sorry you're having trouble with your AP-620. I'll do my best to help you get it resolved. Feel free to contact me in a Private Message here on the forum.

I just clicked on your links. 3 out of 5 go to empty pages, so I'm not sure specifically what you're trying to show but the links don't work. The WK-3000 you're linking to hasn't been made in over 10+ years.

The AP-620 has been quite a successful product. I've seen the same posts here on PianoWorld as on Amazon and the Casio forum about the "Please Wait" issue on some AP-620's. Considering how many AP-620's have been sold, I'm quite certain we don't have a problem but regardless we support the Celviano and Privia digital pianos with a 3 year warranty.

In addition to Casio's direct support numbers, I read the forums here as much as possible so if someone they can reach to directly to me in a private message. I sent you a message I hope to hear from you.


-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
Mike_Martin #2065072 04/15/13 03:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Mike_Martin
pianoworldanon,

First, I'm sorry you're having trouble with your AP-620. I'll do my best to help you get it resolved. Feel free to contact me in a Private Message here on the forum.

I just clicked on your links. 3 out of 5 go to empty pages, so I'm not sure specifically what you're trying to show but the links don't work. The WK-3000 you're linking to hasn't been made in over 10+ years.

The AP-620 has been quite a successful product. I've seen the same posts here on PianoWorld as on Amazon and the Casio forum about the "Please Wait" issue on some AP-620's. Considering how many AP-620's have been sold, I'm quite certain we don't have a problem but regardless we support the Celviano and Privia digital pianos with a 3 year warranty.

In addition to Casio's direct support numbers, I read the forums here as much as possible so if someone they can reach to directly to me in a private message. I sent you a message I hope to hear from you.


Hi Mike, I've fixed the links:
Here's the Costco reviews.. just search for "please wait"

two "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca...iews/reviews.htm?sort=rating&dir=asc

one "please wait":
http://reviews.costco.ca/2070-en_ca...iews/reviews.htm?sort=rating&dir=asc

LINKS FIXED:

http://www.justanswer.com/electroni...-privia-px-330-keyboard-worked-fine.html

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/56-casio-ap-620-boot-up-problem/

http://www.fixya.com/support/t385410-re_casio_wk_3000_musical_keyboard_only

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-AP620-C..._cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

On another thread, I've heard about you mentioning that in-home service is part of the warranty? Is this true?? And under what condition? I ask this pointed question because when I called Casio Repair, I'm told specifically I must haul this piano in. If this is not true and / or is a new policy, I'd like to know.

The big concern started when I called Casio then found out that for California, 9 out of 10 authorized repair station centers around LA, and then even the closest one to where I live, in San Jose, will require two round trip drives on separate days which will total 4 hour drive.


http://www.casio-usa.com/support/musicservicecenters#CA

I can't imagine what would happen for other users who experience similar or same electrical issue. Casio should have in-house service for these QA / Design issue. You've mentioned that the The WK-3000 is 10+ years old, yet the AP-620 have the same error and sympton, which lead me to believe that there's a design issue. I don't know if this is a battery issue or not, but I'm told that I'm not allowed to open the piano where it would void the warranty. If it is a battery issue, then maybe casio can have a diagram where it teaches users how to open it after the warranty period. Mine is still in warranty, but I'm told that if the battery does exist, then it would still die after about 8 years. The back of the piano has screws to the wood that is staple gunned on the buttom. I'm not sure if the top piece can easily be remove to get at the battery, but should the battery die after 8 years, I would like to repair it. This piano is less than 2 years old.

The other issue is that for people who live far away from LA or San Jose in California, Casio will void the warranty even if Casio were to send the board for self repair. If digital pianos are as reliable as they are, then casio shouldn't be afraid of taking in the cost to send out in-house service for issues that are not a fault of the users. I believe Kawai does this from what I've read as they only have one main service center, so likewise, Kawai can't expect people to drive down to their only service center.

Therefore, I think piano companies should make pianos easy to open and replace parts (and agree that it'll still be in warranty after a user-instructed-repair AND / OR send in-house service rather than having customers drive many hours and a minimum of two round trips to service something like this. For those customers who had the fatal "please wait" error that won't go away, I can't imagine how angry they are. I've also heard independently from a piano repair shop that customers are NOT allowed to buy the boards after the warranty period is over for certain brands? This is what got me VERY worried about buying digital pianos. That $1300 is not easy money for some families, and I can't afford to be forced into "upgrading" or buying another one. Even if this board is replaced during the warranty period, I'm still very nervous about it happening again because there are patterns and linkage to old models that have the same issue. If this is really just a battery issue, then casio should keep track and give precise instructions on how to remedy before / after warranty. This should be Standard Operating Procedure. The current standing policy at Casio is that even if Casio agrees to ship me the board and in install it, the fact that if I were to open the piano, it would void the warranty, thus, so far, I must bring this thing in.

I guess many people don't know that there is a battery in digital pianos that will go off in about 8 or so years, which will prevent saving settings. This sort of stuff should also be in the manual. I'm sure many people are not technically savy to know about these sort of stuff, and thus, another call in for repair / board swap or upgrade? That's not honest, and this applies to all companies that don't announce this sort of issue that can be anticipated with virtual certainty.

For my piano, I'm told it's not a battery issue.

Last edited by pianoworldanon; 04/15/13 04:07 PM.
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
pianoworldanon #2065158 04/15/13 07:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 871
G
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 871
The Please Wait issue seems to be a boot problem similar to what happens when a computer doesn't post. Perhaps the internal boot rom is corrupt. If the ROM chip can be replaced, it would seem like an easy fix. Looks like the issue isn't isolated to just one model.

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
galaxy4t #2065620 04/16/13 02:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by galaxy4t
The Please Wait issue seems to be a boot problem similar to what happens when a computer doesn't post. Perhaps the internal boot rom is corrupt. If the ROM chip can be replaced, it would seem like an easy fix. Looks like the issue isn't isolated to just one model.


I agree.

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
galaxy4t #2065633 04/16/13 03:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494
[Edited]

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
pv88 #2065652 04/16/13 04:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,025
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,025
Originally Posted by pv88
Not that I want to continue to harp on a negative issue...


With the greatest respect, you have made a habit of doing precisely this for every instrument you have purchased - be it a Roland, Casio, or Kawai.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
pianoworldanon #2065667 04/16/13 05:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 470
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 470
Pianoworldanon, since you're posting the same thing on multiple threads, I'll post my same comment here:

I have reached out to you privately to try to help you with your situation. I needed some basic information from you, like where you bought your Casio, your product serial number and specifically who at Casio you've been in touch with. You've told me that you don't want to tell me these things.

Clearly there is a breakdown in communication at Casio which I am trying to correct. I am trying to help you. Without information from you, I can't seem to figure out where you're getting this incorrect information. Casio will provide IN HOME WARRANTY REPAIR for Celviano products. This also includes large Privia models like PX-850. As the General Manager of the division, I'm quite certain what I am talking about.

If you'd like to provide me with this information, I'd personally make an effort to get your AP-620 up and running again. I also believe that there are adjustments to the the velocity curve and the brightness setting that will make you significantly happier with your AP-620.


-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
pianoworldanon #2065675 04/16/13 05:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 470
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 470
PV88,
I personally came to your home and spent hours. Other Casio employees have been to your home. We replaced your AP-620 and your old one was brought back to Casio HQ where it has been played and played. Never while I was at your home were we able to duplicate for me. Never have we duplicated it with your old AP-620 which sits in a room down the hall from my office and gets played often. I believe you provided me with a recording where one note sounded out after everything else. That could be caused by a problem with the sustain or more likely the middle pedal, the sostenuto which you could be inadvertently playing, there could be other reasons but a recording is not enough to go on. I asked for other backup, including MIDI data from the AP-620 using its own built in recorder, we've never received that. Only a GarageBand file which unfortunately does not provide a way to actually see all the MIDI data that the AP-620 produces. If you can duplicate it, I'll come to your house again to see it and if its true we'll get to the heart of the issue. We stand by our products.


-Mike Martin
Casio America

Casio Music Forums
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
pianoworldanon #2065676 04/16/13 05:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,120
E
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,120
With reference to pianoworldanon Mike, why bother?

People like this will NEVER be happy! The best thing that can happen for Casio is that he gets rid of his AP620 and moves on to harass another unsuspecting manufacturer (on a public forum). You've only got to read the first post in this thread with him barking out orders about how his question can or cannot be answered to know that he is just going to be completely unreasonable. The moment you got in touch privately and made the kind offer you have of getting this sorted for him he should've stopped all this whinging and publicly acknowledged that you are looking after him and his piano's problem.

If the head of a large company sent me personal messages offering assistance or came to my home to respond to a problem I would give them kudos for doing so and I would praise them from the rooftops. Some people are never happy Mike...


C. Bechstein Model B | Roland RD-1000 |
Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
Mike_Martin #2065682 04/16/13 05:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494
P
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,494
[Edited]

Re: Ever experienced electronic failure of Digital Piano?
Mike_Martin #2066683 04/18/13 05:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
P
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Mike_Martin
Pianoworldanon, since you're posting the same thing on multiple threads, I'll post my same comment here:

I have reached out to you privately to try to help you with your situation. I needed some basic information from you, like where you bought your Casio, your product serial number and specifically who at Casio you've been in touch with. You've told me that you don't want to tell me these things.

Clearly there is a breakdown in communication at Casio which I am trying to correct. I am trying to help you. Without information from you, I can't seem to figure out where you're getting this incorrect information. Casio will provide IN HOME WARRANTY REPAIR for Celviano products. This also includes large Privia models like PX-850. As the General Manager of the division, I'm quite certain what I am talking about.

If you'd like to provide me with this information, I'd personally make an effort to get your AP-620 up and running again. I also believe that there are adjustments to the the velocity curve and the brightness setting that will make you significantly happier with your AP-620.



I'll give you the serial number in a private message. SO, it's official that Casio Keyboards have IN HOUSE warranty from MIKE. THEREFORE, is someone has problem with their CASIO and their center tells them to drive multiple hours, contact MIKE. I would hope Mike can straighten the customer service reps out when people call.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Cleaning up 100 year old ebony finishes
by jkess114 - 12/03/20 08:58 AM
upright piano looks like a grand piano
by Maximillyan - 12/03/20 08:14 AM
VST and Kawai CA99
by Pianuslongus - 12/03/20 07:49 AM
Best Recording For Piano ???
by DigitalMusicProduc - 12/03/20 05:23 AM
Any info on Alfonsi pianos?
by Ubu - 12/03/20 03:19 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,229
Posts3,029,973
Members99,460
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4