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I agree with Marty, GP! After being fooled for the longest time by some of the recordings in the other thread that turned out to be four and six hand performances, and after you told me that eventually, one of the performers was able to punch out rolls and add embellishments at his kitchen table, I payed close attention to this one. It sounds very do-able by one person...

These are great fun! Please keep 'em coming!

--Andy

The rolls are not a 100% interpretation of the artist. It's what was available at the time. Another factor for my piano, is it still needs some further refining, particularly for the classical rolls.

On the contrary, I think the reproducing rolls were made with the timing etc that was available for the mechanisms at that time. Also, the editors of the rolls had a large influence along with the artist in the final master roll.

Thanks...most of the unisons were done by ear, except the last treble octave or so, and the lowest octave. I still cannot hear what I need to focus on with those octaves.

Jason Kanter finally came through with a graph of the 1/9 Comma Meantone Temperament. It is really a solid temperament idea which has been already confirmed by several posted recordings using it. The graph supports the findings as well. There is an abundance of 1.8 ratio beat synchrony which give all triads that have it a more harmonious sound than they would have in ET.



I had the fortunate opportunity to put the 1/9 CMT into serious practice yesterday as I prepared a Kawai RX-5 grand for a Jazz event which was held today. The pianist was Johannes Wallmann: http://www.music.wisc.edu/faculty/bio?faculty_id=94

The piano was in excellent shape with no voicing or regulation requirements and was on pitch. I still spent two full hours solidifying a broadcast quality tuning for the performance which was recorded and will be broadcast at some time in the future. The artist thanked me for a job very well done after the performance.

The event was part of a Jazz on Sundays series at an elegant venue called the Brink Lounge. http://www.thebrinklounge.com/ Here is the link to the specific event: http://www.thebrinklounge.com/ai1ec...n-and-the-sweet-minute/?instance_id=1520

The eventual Podcast will be able to be heard but not downloaded. See this site for programming: http://archive.wort-fm.org/ The site will have to be watched to find out when the podcast will become available.

This was a Jazz event in the way that I remember them. It was night club setting: tables and chairs with tasty food and fine beverages available. The room was at capacity but not over crowded. Original compositions were presented. The instrumentation was unusual, however. The horns were trumpet/flugel horn, trombone and tuba (the latter used as a Jazz instrument, not as a bass). The usual drum set and string bass accompanied the piano.

The local radio station provided announcers as hosts who engaged the pianist and other musicians in short conversations between the pieces. There were two 90 minute sets. The event also welcomed musician members of the audience to participate in an improvisation session that followed the main event.

The Madison Music Collective is an organization that has long kept Jazz events such as these alive. http://www.madisonmusiccollective.org/

You guys may be right....it was always a concensus among the reproducing collectors that it would be difficult for a live
performer to sound like some of those rolls, especially those with added notes beyond what 10 fingers could do.

Will do Andy...by magic, here is another one "Steppin' In Society" https://www.box.com/s/259hb205s075d7jb4h0x

Bill, thanks for the info from Kantor...it is a very nice sounding temperament.

Look forward to hearing the podcast!

Absolutely! Thank you Bill

-Joe

I tuned a nice Yamaha C7 at a Gospel church today. They had a drumset, a Hammond B-3 organ and other kepyboards on the set. I've known the keyboardist for about 30 years. He is capable of many styles and often plays keyboards in the pit orchestra of the local high school for musicals. His daughter is the choir teacher there.

He is "Mr. Music" in that small town where the kids have all grown up used to hearing the pianos tuned in the EBVT. Considering the instrumentation and the type of music to be played, I opted this time for the 1/9 CMT. It produces such a smooth sound!

Bill, that's exactly the way I felt when I tuned the Weber. If I have time, will try this on the M&H, and use the 'extended' stretch to get as close as possible to the stretch you used for my EBVT III.

I just posted in the EBVT III thread Joe. Here are a few jazz pieces in EBVT III on my M&H RBB. Enjoy.


3. Jazz--Solfegetto in C minor--Jazz- Played by M.Garson on LX System -1927 M&H RBB.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/y6ebybz03zs9jd70ep4j

4. Jazz--Rythym Etude-- Played by M.Garson on the LX System- 1927 M&H RBB- EBVT III Temperament.mp3 https://www.box.com/s/dymrml5z9ns11psvxxby


Link to the EBVT III thread: https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...Piano%20in%20EBVT%20III.html#Post2061593

grandpianoman...

WoW! I love these!

The piano sounds so alive!

And you are doing better work than some pros!

Did you use the Verituner, RCT, or Tunelab?

I'm going to have to go over your EBVT3 thread again. If I remember correctly, you have several pieces that were played in both ET and EBVT3. I want to hear if that resonance is the piano, or the tuning.

Thanks for posting
-Joe

Hi Joe,

Thanks! I used the Verituner Ipad with Bill's EBVT III tuning specifically for my BB.

I think what you are hearing has to do with several factors that all come together beautifully. The hammers and bass strings, Bill's special tuning, and of course the piano itself, with the Wapin bridge mod......it is one great sounding M&H BB.

Bill's tuning, more than any other one I have had on there, does something with the bass that just makes it sound so rich and full....Bill could explain it better how it reinforces the rest of the scale. It sounds like I have a larger piano than just 7ft...in person it is remarkable. Thanks for the kudo's...I just try and do the best my musical ears can do.

Yes, somewhere in that huge EBVT thread, you will find them...:)

Here are a few more Jazz pieces I recorded today....different mics, Rode NT5 Omins. Enjoy!


Rode NT5 Omini mics EBVT III

1. Jazz--Bach to Brooklyn Played by M. Garson EBVT III https://www.box.com/s/fy9h5yj8q3tkyxideyvq

2. Jazz--M.Garson 1 https://www.box.com/s/5lt9xskkgwvi3whxkysd

The opening post spoke of hardcore jazz. Thanks, grandpianoman for these two, particularly the one that goes into " I should care".. It contains some of the extended chords in extreme inversions. Jazz pianists I like to hear know how to graduate the tension in these kinds of chords. I don't hear the graduated tension but that may be the temperament or the pianist. These are rolls are they not? If they were made on an instrument in ET, that may be the reason. It would be nice to hear a comparison with the same roll played in ET. There seems to be some of the tension missing from the chords. Hard for me to tell why.

The opening post spoke of hardcore jazz. Thanks, grandpianoman for these two, particularly the one that goes into " I should care".. It contains some of the extended chords in extreme inversions. Jazz pianists I like to hear know how to graduate the tension in these kinds of chords. I don't hear the graduated tension but that may be the temperament or the pianist. These are rolls are they not? If they were made on an instrument in ET, that may be the reason. It would be nice to hear a comparison with the same roll played in ET. There seems to be some of the tension missing from the chords. Hard for me to tell why.

Hi rxd....you're welcome. Last night I recorded a few more from Garson. Will post those later today. These are not piano rolls. They are played on the LX system. I suspect they were made on a piano in ET.

You mentioned the pianists interpretation.....def different if he had recorded it live on my piano. Playing a recorded piece on a player piano or the LX/Disklavier, one hears what the pianist did on the recording piano, not my piano. Different accoustics, temperatment/tuning, piano action etc are not going to be exactly the same. If he had recorded it on my piano, he would probably play it slightly different. I remember Bill pointing this out eary in the EBVT III thread. It could also be the temperament.

Rxd, here is another Garson Jazz piece...the tuning went a bit sour, never the less, here it is. Also, I converted it to the .flac format instead of .mp3...it's a bigger file, but to my ear it sounds better. The box.net will play it, just give it time decode it. I also changed to the highest quality on my software when converting it from .wav to .flac.

ps...lol...about mid way through, my dog decides to do the dog shake...:)

M.Garson 3-Rode NT5 Ominis https://www.box.com/s/445ql3xqyl0r4r78t5dm

Sorry, grandpianoman, there something different enough with this link that it won't download on my iPhone. I'll have to wait til I'm at my big computer. Getting me to sit behind a desk these days may take a while.

There are different ways to raise the consonance, all with advantages and inconvenience.

Just to avoid confusion, my point is about the carefully graded progressive dissonances that are the province of the jazz pianist. (the pianist on BDB's recent 'sample' is an exellent case in point. ET works well for his type of playing.

Any attempt at more 'consonance', by an overly helpful tuner, however achieved, could destroy the carefully heard and constructed degrees of dissonance which is the intent of the finer jazz pianists. It isn't consonance they are striving for, it is carefully differentiated degrees of dissonance (tension). Show tunes in their original harmony don't begin to demonstrate this as a test of a suitable temperament for "hardcore" jazz as was stated in the presenting post. First class Jazz pianists these days are more and more particular about the pianos they play and their tuning.

I have thought of conducting an experiment involving the jazz profs and students at my conservatory but I think twice about disturbing the carefully built up stability of the pianos in their department and there isn't a piano I can set aside for a suitable length of time.

It is a little surprising to hear harmony progressions sounding a little "straight or "flat" in the sence less contrast , while more was expected.

But I believe that this part of the listening is due to a too big enlarging to get to pure intervals and consonance points . Global motion is fighted by the even beating process, but harmonically I would expect more congruence.

The tone, in itself, is clean and calm, nice to listen, but harmonic construction is a little disturbing "loss of meaning, that last being related to our listening habits as well" ,under some circumstances.