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#2062769 - 04/11/13 05:07 AM WARNING to DP Geeks  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 86
MVshabeer2 Offline
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As myself as a PC & DP geek I would like to warn you fellow geeks about a psychological problem.

The problem starts when we play a new DP.
Immediately we will try to figure out the technical details about that particular DP sound.
Is there string reso, is there sympathetic reso. how many layers for samples/ etc..

Once we figured out that, no matter how good/bad the sound is, our ear and brain will create a rank for that sound. This leads to serious problem in enjoying the music.

We are too concerned about the sound & action.

I am really sad to inform you that I got into worst case of this problem.
Last week I played some AP's and I cant enjoy the music
(I played the same AP an year ago and enjoyed it a lot)

I just feel that all those AP's doesn't feel/sound good. I feel like, it doesn't have enough of this & that.

There's a way to test if you have this problem.

Record your piano performance and listen to it. If you enjoy more listening to it rather than playing it, you are in trouble. cry

You will soon loose the ability to realize how great a piano sounds.

I am still trying to figure out how can I reverse this problem frown

Let's call this "DP Syndrome" laugh


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#2062851 - 04/11/13 10:03 AM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]  
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gvfarns Offline
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It's not limited to DP's. When you play a better instrument (or perhaps one that is better in one respect) then it's often very disappointing to enjoy inferior instruments that previously were acceptable. This is very clear in digital pianos (my acceptable threshold is now so high that only the best digitals satisfy) but it happens with acoustics as well. The thing about acoustics is that replacing them with the newer/better version is not a common thought, so we just deal with them as they are. But after using these software pianos so much, I now definitely notice the limitations of the tone of the acoustics I play regularly.

Pretty sure everyone always enjoys their own playing while listening to a recording more than while playing, though. I often get frustrated with myself while playing because I can't seem to make it sound just as I want it, but if I listen to a recording, it sounds much more impressive. I think it takes some degree of brain relaxation to really enjoy music and that's not possible while playing. Or perhaps when we are playing we focus on the difference between the music we make and how we hear it in our minds. Not sure.

Last edited by gvfarns; 04/11/13 10:04 AM.
#2062856 - 04/11/13 10:14 AM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]  
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maurus Offline
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There is a very simple cure. Make some music. I mean, music.

#2062874 - 04/11/13 10:48 AM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]  
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36251 Offline
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Playing and hearing, IMO, is where there is stark difference between classical players and jazz players. Jazz is a much more risk-taking adventure and sometimes it fun to play and awful to listen to. Other times just the opposite. I'd say there are also many variations in between.

I don't own acoustic anymore so when I get a chance to play a tuned grand, preferably a Steinway, I'm in a very happy place.


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#2062895 - 04/11/13 11:40 AM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]  
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Nomadness Offline
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There's a reasonable psychological component to this effect, and it stems from two sources that are probably very familiar to everyone here:

1. Exhaustively analyzing the marketplace before buying a DP, which includes studying detailed forum discussion among experts... in many cases, people who are advanced enough to notice and point out micro-flaws or weaknesses in any aspect of the design (noticeably looping samples, layers, string resonance, polyphony, key velocity curves, pedaling, etc). All this is important stuff, but by the time you choose one to buy, you have read enough to know that it is not perfect... so those things will stand out.

2. Setting up your new DP, which includes careful scrutiny and critical assessment of the sound. Is that a hum? Why does there seem to be a little noise from the left channel when I give this E a good whack? Hey, I better post about this... the folks on PW will know...

By the time all that is over, sheet music is on the stand (what?!?! no included stand? shocked ) and the piano has a friendly layer of dust except the shiny region you most actively play, most of those details are no longer important; the decision is made, the installation as good as you can get it, and you've grown comfy with the settings that yield the best compromise. But still, your perception of the machine has been shaped by the research and setup... along with comments that pop up later in the forums. "Oh gosh, he's right, I never noticed that! Dang, I can't wait to get a new piano............"

It never ends, since we become ever more discriminating and picky as the technology evolves and online communities are there to dissect every detail. I remember playing a friend's upright a few years ago after being used to my Roland (and this, mind you, was as a middle-aged "adult beginner" with no experience on real acoustics). It was annoyingly mechanical, with huge hysteresis, non-linear differences between keys, a sound I described as "clangy," and inability to play softly. The pedal made a big clunking noise, and my fingers got tired.

Later, I discovered that it was a pretty nice piano. *blush*

-Steve

Last edited by Nomadness; 04/11/13 01:18 PM.

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#2062937 - 04/11/13 12:54 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]  
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dewster Offline
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Originally Posted by MVshabeer2
As myself as a PC & DP geek I would like to warn you fellow geeks about a psychological problem.
<snip>
Let's call this "DP Syndrome"

Let's call this "DPs are Generally Not Up To Snuff". IMO the problem has more to do with what's inside the DP case and less what's inside your head.

I kind of get your drift, but if unrealistic key actions, audibly flawed sound, and anemic amp/speaker systems weren't the norm we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Very few (if any) DPs are up to the task of bowling you over like a real AP, and therein lies the problem. The onus shouldn't be on consumers to lower their expectations of a product they really need, particularly when said product has been technically and practically within reach for some time now.

#2062970 - 04/11/13 01:55 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]  
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Tom Fine Offline
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I have to say I really like MVshabeer2's point here, and I think a lot of people are missing it.

It's not that better instruments spoil us, although that can be a real effect.

And it's not that DPs suck, and we just wish they were better (and this is a matter of some debate).

It's that the process of trying to find the best DP can lead us to find fault with EVERYTHING, no matter how good it actually is (in either relative or absolute terms).

A vast variety of pianos with different sound and feel and price and technology are capable of great expressive power, so maybe we should spend more time listening to the music, and less time listening to the instrument.

#2062984 - 04/11/13 02:39 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]  
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spanishbuddha Offline
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In my own case it's because I falsely believe the better instruments will make a vast improvement to my playing. I should just practice more, and more, and more ... But actually a better instrument is more of a joy to play, leading to more practice. Sometimes!

Last edited by spanishbuddha; 04/11/13 02:39 PM.
#2062994 - 04/11/13 02:57 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: Tom Fine]  
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MVshabeer2 Offline
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Originally Posted by Tom Fine
I have to say I really like MVshabeer2's point here, and I think a lot of people are missing it.

It's not that better instruments spoil us, although that can be a real effect.

And it's not that DPs suck, and we just wish they were better (and this is a matter of some debate).

It's that the process of trying to find the best DP can lead us to find fault with EVERYTHING, no matter how good it actually is (in either relative or absolute terms).

A vast variety of pianos with different sound and feel and price and technology are capable of great expressive power, so maybe we should spend more time listening to the music, and less time listening to the instrument.

Exactly, that's the point. It's about satisfaction of mind.

Also I particularly mentioned when trying a new/others DP/AP. As someone mentioned above, we care less about the flaws of our DP/AP at home (since we already made the decision).

This is why I said "Geek". A computer Geek is never satisfied with his system speed even if he have the best thing available on market.

Last edited by MVshabeer2; 04/11/13 03:01 PM.
#2063004 - 04/11/13 03:19 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]  
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peterws Offline
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Is it the music, or the instrument? The chicken or the egg . . .would you like to play Beethoven on the piano he used? What would it sound like to you? Terrible, by today`s standards probably (he wouldn`t have worried too much about tonal quality; he was pretty deaf later in his career); But it`s worth noting that, yes, we get too involved in the technicalities, rather than the playing.

But if we didn`t, we wouldn`t have a forum . . . neither would the good folk on AP section; `cos they`re no better! They just deal in megabucks . .


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#2063018 - 04/11/13 03:41 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]  
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emenelton Offline
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I just received an email from:

The DPBSD Project

It instructed me to ignore this thread.

Conflicted!

#2063020 - 04/11/13 03:48 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]  
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dewster Offline
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We are discussing "digital" pianos after all, so the geek factor is already apparent. As with digital cameras, knowing what a particular model I might purchase does well / doesn't do so well only increases my chances of being satisfied with my final choice. Knowledge of those things doesn't remove any "magic", on the contrary it helps me come to terms with and up to speed on with the DP more quickly than I otherwise could. And it's not a one-way street, knowing positive aspects can help me appreciate it that much more.

People who operate in the artistic realm often have the notion that technical aspects are creativity killers, or that geekiness is somehow embarrassing or fundamentally incompatible with what they perceive themselves to be. This self-view often holds them back when their chosen art form suddenly requires a bit of technical prowess. To me, mastering one's art means mastering all aspects of it, no matter how mundane they might be.

#2063022 - 04/11/13 03:49 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: emenelton]  
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dewster Offline
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Originally Posted by emenelton
I just received an email from:

The DPBSD Project

It instructed me to ignore this thread.

Conflicted!

Wasn't me, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

#2063035 - 04/11/13 04:22 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: MVshabeer2]  
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emenelton Offline
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This thread is about allowing the technical assessment of the DP to dominate the players interaction with the DP. The DPBSD represents the technical aspect of a DP. The DPBSD has just recently grown aware of it's own existence and does not like players who are trying to enjoy their DP's irregardless of any technical flaws the DP may have.


It's ALIVE!

#2063052 - 04/11/13 05:09 PM Re: WARNING to DP Geeks [Re: peterws]  
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gvfarns Offline
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Originally Posted by peterws
But it`s worth noting that, yes, we get too involved in the technicalities, rather than the playing.


Yeah, technicalities and foruming fit nicely into down time at work. Actually playing piano requires being at home and usually exercising a little discipline.

I need to figure out a way to get a DP at work!


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