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#2061996 - 04/09/13 03:10 PM Kawai ES7 Action/Feel  
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Some disappointment with my Kawai ES7 experience.

The first unit I got had a problem with one key (played louder than the others).

Dealer exchanged for a new unit.

But, it turned out that the second unit has a different feel than the first unit. I loved the feel of the first unit (best feel of any board I've ever tried, and I've tried them all in the last 2 years). But, this second unit I got has lighter feeling keys - and it 'bottoms out'. (Not as much as, for example, Roland, but way more than the original unit.) Hurts my fingers a bit; and harder to control overall because of the lightness.

So - I called Kawai customer service to see if they could do anything to adjust this second unit, which functions perfectly, but feels no where near as good as the first.

They said I should bring into a tech to make sure the felt was was properly situated (a possible cause for the bottoming out). So, I did. Tech said the felt was positioned properly.

So… after some back and forth in talking with Kawai customer service, turns out that there was a change in production at some point on the ES7 units. At the beginning, either all or some of the early models were using the 'wrong' weights (weights intended for two-sensor keyboards, not three-sensor keyboards). And those 'wrong' weights were heavier the the current, more recent, correct weights. So, my first unit had the heavier weights; my current unit has the lighter weights. That's the reason for the difference in feel; and nothing to be done to fix. (They told me they have no more of the older units available.)

I am kind of surprised that other users don't feel that the action is a bit light on the ES7… but perhaps I'm just used to something heavier; don't know.

That's my story, just thought I'd share with the community. Curious if anyone has any similar experience.

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#2062004 - 04/09/13 03:18 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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I just want to know .... which key was louder than the others.

I also have a key that periodically ... BANGS ...

It is the E key just to the right of middle C.

Could yours have been the same key ?



Don

Current: ES8, ProFX8 Mixer, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur
#2062012 - 04/09/13 03:28 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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The key that was louder was F3 (F below middle C).

But, it wasn't louder mechanically - it was louder 'electronically' (i.e., the note was louder when played).


#2062016 - 04/09/13 03:30 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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Drat !

I was hoping for some consistency.



Don

Current: ES8, ProFX8 Mixer, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur
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#2062021 - 04/09/13 03:42 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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Hi Info2011, the action on my ES7 feels heavy and I love it. If just recent, any chance the dealer still has the first one you returned. Call him asap. Im sure that one key is repairable. BTW im on my third ES7, returned first two. This one is perfect. I can explain in detail if you care but figured irrelevant.


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2062027 - 04/09/13 03:58 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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Thanks for the suggestion Marko - actually Kawai service tried to get that one back from the dealer (and they would have fixed the one key) - but to no avail.

Yeah, my original unit, action felt heavy. Was great. Alas...

;-)

#2062286 - 04/10/13 05:48 AM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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Originally Posted by Info2011
The key that was louder was F3 (F below middle C).
But, it wasn't louder mechanically - it was louder 'electronically' (i.e., the note was louder when played).


Was the sound amplified when you pressed the damper pedal or was it louder than other keys even without pedal? And more importantly, is the F3 on the replacement unit working correctly? I had very similar problem on my CA95 so I am very interested.


Is it just me being biased (having Kawai) or are reports of Kawai units failures/replacement MUCH more frequent than for other brands? I recall so many such threads that I lost count...

#2062310 - 04/10/13 07:19 AM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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These are not failures, but characteristics of some units wink
Now, mine works fine with regards to sound evenness (and everything I've tested so far).
About the changes on action weights...It would be interesting having some serial numbers as a reference. Is it possible?


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
#2062312 - 04/10/13 07:36 AM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: mabraman]  
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I will give you my serial # if helps compare. But is ok to put our serial #s online?

Last edited by Marko in Boston; 04/10/13 07:38 AM.

KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2062321 - 04/10/13 08:25 AM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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I meant having the aprox. serial number for the change in the action.

Gherty, are you there?


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
#2062412 - 04/10/13 02:33 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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Hookxs: The louder F3 happened with or without pedal. The replacement unit doesn't have that problem on any of the keys. (BTW, for the record, I did notice the same 'loud note' problem on one other in-store unit, on middle C).

I wonder about the failures/replacement being more common on Kawai (it does seem that there are more posts on these forums for Kawai issues; not that that's a definitive conclusion).

But, frankly, the whole "wrong weights were used on early units" doesn't exactly speak to great quality control. I was told that the weights were visually the same, and that's how/why it happened ... but isn't somebody playing these units before they get boxed? (Meaning, somebody who would notice -- someone who can play).

Frustrating and annoying... but may keyboard issues be our worst problems.







#2063395 - 04/12/13 10:08 AM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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Hello Info2011,

Thank you for your post.

After reading your message I immediately queried the situation with my colleagues here in Japan and overseas.

The head of the keyboard engineering team informed me that there have been no changes to the key weight of the ES7's action during development.

Furthermore, he noted that this point was clearly explained to the digital piano project manager at Kawai America, who had also raised the same query.

I'm afraid I do not know why the customer service representative that you spoke with suggested that 'early models were using wrong weights', however I can reassure you that this is definitely not the case. Again, to clarify, ES7 instruments manufactured today are using the same key weights as the very first units produced a few months ago.

The digital piano project manager at Kawai America has informed me that a technician will be evaluating the two ES7s that you received shortly, so I'm confident that we will get to the bottom of this mix-up in the near future. And more importantly, provide an instrument that you are 100% satisfied with.

On behalf of everyone at Kawai, may I apologise for this inconvenience, and any the lack of clarity provided by Kawai America's customer service staff.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2063415 - 04/12/13 10:52 AM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James

The digital piano project manager at Kawai America has informed me that a technician will be evaluating the two ES7s that you received shortly, so I'm confident that we will get to the bottom of this mix-up in the near future. And more importantly, provide an instrument that you are 100% satisfied with.


Outstanding service Kawai James. This just another reason why Im so happy i bought Kawai and will for as long as possible. You certainly do not see Roland and Yamaha personally jumping in to make things right when someone needs help on the forum. Service is so important when you purchase such intricate and expensive electronics such as a digital piano. You really need the company to stand behind and support it's products. Well done Kawai.


(and yes, Casio has a great guy too with Mike Martin)

Last edited by Marko in Boston; 04/12/13 10:54 AM.

KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2063574 - 04/12/13 03:54 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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Wow! Thanks Kawai James for your input and help on this. (Unexpected and greatly appreciated.)

(I'll post any further news once I hear from Kawai America and things can get resolved.)

Again, thanks KJ.

#2063683 - 04/12/13 07:24 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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Happy to help!

James
x


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Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2088680 - 05/25/13 05:07 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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Hi guys, I also have a problem with my Kawai's keyboard. One of the keys (F on the right of middle C) is making very loud 'scratching' noise when pressed and then even louder 'clapping' noise when released. I also think action is a little lighter on that key. I think it's just a mechanical problem and doesn't effect sound of the piano, but it's very annoying. Do you guys think problem with my piano is big enough to get a new unit?


Kawai es7, Scandalli Polifonico
#2088795 - 05/25/13 07:59 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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NYRfan, I would recommend contacting your local dealer to discuss the matter.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2090635 - 05/28/13 12:07 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Kawai James]  
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I'll call my dealer in a minute. This is a video I just made to show what the problem is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX_vJehPOFk

EDIT:

Just got off the phone with my dealer, new piano will be shipped today.

Last edited by NYRfan; 05/28/13 12:25 PM.

Kawai es7, Scandalli Polifonico
#2093483 - 06/01/13 05:09 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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I got second unit and it has the same problem right out of the box. I didn't even play it, just checked if there were any noisy keys. The only difference is, it's a different key. I don't know if I should return it, or just live with it. Any advice? Does anyone else has this problem?


Kawai es7, Scandalli Polifonico
#2093488 - 06/01/13 05:14 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: NYRfan]  
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Yes, return it again! I had some issues with Kawai and they resolved my issues immediately. They are outstanding when it comes to customer satisfaction and will do whatever it takes to make sure the customer (me) is happy.


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2093756 - 06/02/13 04:37 AM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
Yes, return it again! I had some issues with Kawai and they resolved my issues immediately. They are outstanding when it comes to customer satisfaction and will do whatever it takes to make sure the customer (me) is happy.

That's the thing. They should be outstanding when it comes to quality control and make sure that minimal amount of units need replacing in the first place. Whether or not you can return the piano depends largely on the dealer from which you bought the piano and also on the laws of the country you live in, so not everyone has the "luxury" of being able to repeatedly return pianos until satisfaction.

#2093764 - 06/02/13 05:06 AM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Hookxs]  
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Originally Posted by Hookxs
Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
Yes, return it again! I had some issues with Kawai and they resolved my issues immediately. They are outstanding when it comes to customer satisfaction and will do whatever it takes to make sure the customer (me) is happy.

That's the thing. They should be outstanding when it comes to quality control and make sure that minimal amount of units need replacing in the first place. Whether or not you can return the piano depends largely on the dealer from which you bought the piano and also on the laws of the country you live in, so not everyone has the "luxury" of being able to repeatedly return pianos until satisfaction.


Good points Hookxs. QC should be a top priority in manufacturing. Yes, living in the US I do have the "luxury" and and I should not take that for granted. We are very fortunate in the US to have product availability, aggressive pricing, and guaranteed customer satisfaction. I apologize if was coming across as arrogant or overconfident. I was just trying to express my complete satisfaction with Kawai: the products, my dealer, James, etc.

Last edited by Marko in Boston; 06/02/13 05:07 AM.

KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2093821 - 06/02/13 09:21 AM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Hookxs]  
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Originally Posted by Hookxs

Is it just me being biased (having Kawai) or are reports of Kawai units failures/replacement MUCH more frequent than for other brands? I recall so many such threads that I lost count...

I am relatively new here and believe I have no bias for or against Kawai. You are correct that there is the feeling of many more complaints of physical problems with Kawai. In fact, I personally have the distinct impression that you are almost assured of at least a minor problem at some point.

In regards to Roland, the complaints seem limited to visible key wear, possibly due to their ivory coating. I've seen this in person. Yamaha, I have seen only the one complaint about a hum sound, and I'd say that is the brand I researched the most here, since my original piano was Yamaha.

However, we should be careful about these conclusions. Looking at the "prices paid" and the general level of discussion, we can immediately see that Kawai receives the most vocal attention here. Whether this is due to owners of other brands quietly enjoying their pianos or a higher level of Kawai ownership, we do not know. It is well understood that Internet forums will have the most participation from people having problems, rather than those with no problems.


Playing: Yamaha GC2
#2101975 - 06/13/13 01:16 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Daniel Corban]  
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Another F key on my Kawai went bad. This is getting ridiculous. Now two keys click and clap like it was an 200 years church organ. It's the second unit, still waiting for third one to arrive. Looks like Kawai has some serious quality issues with this model.

Last edited by NYRfan; 06/13/13 01:21 PM.

Kawai es7, Scandalli Polifonico
#2101990 - 06/13/13 01:40 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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I really wonder if something is broken or not. There have been a number of pianos with some kind of click in them and all they needed was some more lube. Piano actions seem to be pretty much universally lubed with white grease of some kind. It's really long lasting but it can get too thin in some cases and adding a little solves a multitude of ills that may seem serious.

I'm suggesting you open a brand new piano to do this, of course. Just that it might not be a fundamentally serious issue.

Last edited by gvfarns; 06/13/13 01:41 PM.
#2102010 - 06/13/13 02:09 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: gvfarns]  
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If this problem occurs with third unit, I'll send it back to get it fixed instead of getting a new piano. They said it should be an easy fix (something wrong with hammer mechanism). I don't want to open it by myself because that would void the warranty. But hopefully this unit will be without any defects. I will keep you guys posted


Kawai es7, Scandalli Polifonico
#2102040 - 06/13/13 03:27 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
Originally Posted by Hookxs
Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
Yes, return it again! I had some issues with Kawai and they resolved my issues immediately. They are outstanding when it comes to customer satisfaction and will do whatever it takes to make sure the customer (me) is happy.

That's the thing. They should be outstanding when it comes to quality control and make sure that minimal amount of units need replacing in the first place. Whether or not you can return the piano depends largely on the dealer from which you bought the piano and also on the laws of the country you live in, so not everyone has the "luxury" of being able to repeatedly return pianos until satisfaction.


Good points Hookxs. QC should be a top priority in manufacturing. Yes, living in the US I do have the "luxury" and and I should not take that for granted. We are very fortunate in the US to have product availability, aggressive pricing, and guaranteed customer satisfaction. I apologize if was coming across as arrogant or overconfident. I was just trying to express my complete satisfaction with Kawai: the products, my dealer, James, etc.


...Despite you returned 3 of them? Man, that's beyond positive thinking.
What happens with kawai is that, in a blind people country, the one-eyed is the king.


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
#2102086 - 06/13/13 05:08 PM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: mabraman]  
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It was not my choice to be given a new one every time I returned it. The dealer just handed me a new one both times. I would have been plenty happy if they just repaired the first one. SO yes, that might be the cause of my "beyond positive thinking" with Kawai.

If I bought a Dell or Mac and and it had an issue, they would have repaired it or sent me a refurb. Not give a brand new boxed one every time I have an issue.

Simply stating that Kawai has a no hassle guarantee IMO. If they are taking a big hit on faulty units, still not my problem. Hire a new QC manager.


Last edited by Marko in Boston; 06/14/13 08:36 AM.

KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2102282 - 06/14/13 03:57 AM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Info2011]  
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speaking of less key travel..

this might be cause of less levels of loudness(less travel = less levels of loudness - velocity and stuff).

in another way

maybe quantity of those levels is the same as others, however , its more difficult to catch them, they are more compacted.

this is only my suspects, not facts


CA65, SUPERLUX HD330
#2102331 - 06/14/13 08:15 AM Re: Kawai ES7 Action/Feel [Re: Hookxs]  
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Over here in Singapore, Yamaha does it quite differently.

I bought my P155 online from sg.yamaha.com. On the day of delivery, they actually assemble the piano & stand at their warehouse, tested it, then delivery the whole set to me.

I'd expect that they send over the boxes and assemble at my place. But then, if anything were to go wrong, they'd have to bring the piano back and come back another day. So, I guess their way does have some merits.



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