2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
82 members (brendon, bobrunyan, aMused, 8ude, Abdol, Alex_Ki, A Guy, BrokenSymmetry, 23 invisible), 569 guests, and 476 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
New or used Estonia
#2061596 04/08/13 10:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8
Y
ygm Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
Y
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8
I have a choice of a gently used 2006 L190 for $24000 and a new L168 for $28000. Which one would you pick and are those good prices?

I'm also wondering if there were significant changes made to the design of the piano between 2006 and now.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by ygm; 04/08/13 10:48 PM.
Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2061654 04/09/13 01:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 791
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 791
2006 if treated well!


Schimmel Konzert 189 Tradition
Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2061868 04/09/13 11:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,942
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,942
The L190 was a wonderful instrument by 2006 but there have been additional changes since to both models. They are constantly refining.

I would play and consider both. Is the used piano presented well?


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: New or used Estonia
PianoWorksATL #2061877 04/09/13 11:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8
Y
ygm Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
Y
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL
The L190 was a wonderful instrument by 2006 but there have been additional changes since to both models. They are constantly refining.

I would play and consider both. Is the used piano presented well?


I have not _yet_ seen the L190, as it is in a different showroom. However, the store is reputable and I assured that it is literally in mint condition. My biggest problem is that I do not play a piano myself. This is an investment in the musical future of my two daughters so to speak. =)

Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2061886 04/09/13 11:31 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
7000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Both are very fine instruments. The 190 would tend to win out as the increased size does tend to improve the sound quality.

Either instrument would be more than sufficient for any student, and a young pianist could 'grow into' either. As a mature pianist, my ear would draw me to the longer instrument.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2061905 04/09/13 11:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,534
M
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,534
The price on the L190 was probably close to full list price when it was new.

Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2061910 04/09/13 12:00 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
7000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
According to the listing in the 2006 supplement to "The Piano Book," the price for an ebony finish 190 is $34,650.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: New or used Estonia
Minnesota Marty #2061911 04/09/13 12:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,534
M
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,534
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
According to the listing in the 2006 supplement to "The Piano Book," the price for an ebony finish 190 is $34,650.


I should of stated reasonable retail price. My new Estonia L190 2008 was in the mid/high 20's.

I would offer 18k and pay no more than 20k for the 2006.

Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2061913 04/09/13 12:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
Although I have yet to play a (modern) Estonia I just want to state that when it comes to pianos a size difference of 28 cm generally makes a HUGE difference in the quality of sound, all things being equal (which unfortunately they rarely are).
(This is generally a rule of thumb but since you're not a piano player yourself and may not know this).

Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2061917 04/09/13 12:11 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
7000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Sparky - Have you had the glorious experience of playing a Soviet Estonia?

If so, please accept my sympathy. wink


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: New or used Estonia
Mark... #2061920 04/09/13 12:11 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,488
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 28,488
Originally Posted by Mark...
The price on the L190 was probably close to full list price when it was new.
How do you know this?

I think it could have been almost anything. The present asking price does not have to be related to the original selling price. Also, it is very rare in my experience for Estonia dealers to ask for or get full list price or full SMP price. The pricing protocols in the Piano Buyer have been well known for such a long time that a buyer would have to be very uniformed to pay full list or SMP price.

Re: New or used Estonia
pianoloverus #2061923 04/09/13 12:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,534
M
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,534
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Mark...
The price on the L190 was probably close to full list price when it was new.
How do you know this?

I think it could have been almost anything. The present asking price does not have to be related to the original selling price. Also, it is very rare in my experience for Estonia dealers to ask for or get full list price or full SMP price. The pricing protocols in the Piano Buyer have been well known for such a long time that a buyer would have to be very uniformed to pay full list or SMP price.


Take my reasonable retail price, subtract yearly average increases and you get a ballpark number. If my reasonable 2008 price is translated down two years 24k would be a reasonable retail price in 2006.

But again, I would offer 18k and pay no more than 20k for this 2006. It is a buyers market after all. laugh

Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2061929 04/09/13 12:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,540
S
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,540
PL, Mark did qualify the comment later to indicate actual retail price. $24K would be a bit below what I was offered for an Ebony L190 when I bought my Estonia in 2005 (I took a Bubinga), so he's about right there.

To the OP, as for not paying more than $20K for it now, I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Pricing for used pianos depends on the local market. Go ahead and offer $18K, but it's up to the dealer to accept reject or counter your offer. Frankly if I liked the instrument it might be worth $24K to me today. That's the issue what's it worth to the buyer. Kudos to the OP for even considering investing that kind of money in their children's musical efforts. I would agree the dealer is probably willing to negotiate a lower price with a serious buyer, the question is how much lower?


Steve Chandler
composer/amateur pianist

stevechandler-music.com
http://www.soundcloud.com/pantonality
http://www.youtube.com/pantonality
Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2061941 04/09/13 12:44 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
7000 Post Club Member
Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Consider that Estonia, in 2006, was when the instrument was gaining in popularity in the US. At the time, such a well built and fine instrument was considered an extroardinary value. Things have changed in six years and they are sought after instruments, and the prices have increased dramatically.

Asking $24K for this L190 doesn't surprise me at all, considering the demand. If you like the piano, it's time for some serious negotiations.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2062005 04/09/13 02:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 7
K
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
K
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 7
There have been improvements since 2006 in all of the Estonia models but there is nothing wrong with the older 190.

All things being equal, if you like the sound of both pianos and the 190 is in very good shape, my decision would be based on a two other issues.

1. Where was the piano and how was it cared for? Maintenance, tunings, etc.

2. What type (if any) and how complete of a warranty is being given to you with the purchase of the used piano.

Once those two questions are answered I would be more comfortable offering advice on which piano to buy.




Keith Keeler
Sales Manager
Allegro Pianos
205 West 58th St
New York, NY 10019
Representing: New Bosendorfer-Bluthner-Estonia-Haessler-Kawai-Steingraber Pianos
Re: New or used Estonia
Keith Keeler #2062022 04/09/13 02:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8
Y
ygm Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
Y
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by Keith Keeler
There have been improvements since 2006 in all of the Estonia models but there is nothing wrong with the older 190.

All things being equal, if you like the sound of both pianos and the 190 is in very good shape, my decision would be based on a two other issues.

1. Where was the piano and how was it cared for? Maintenance, tunings, etc.

2. What type (if any) and how complete of a warranty is being given to you with the purchase of the used piano.

Once those two questions are answered I would be more comfortable offering advice on which piano to buy.




The piano comes from the showroom of a reputable store. They claim one owner and light use.

The warranty covers action, strings, pins, and pin-block for 5 years parts and labor.

Thanks

Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2062032 04/09/13 03:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,534
M
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,534
Has a retailer ever claimed heavy use? laugh

Like, this is a very nice piano, but the poor bastard was beat on like crazy! laugh

Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2062035 04/09/13 03:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 7
K
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
K
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 7
Please make sure the soundboard is also covered in this warranty for the same duration and just for peace of mind I would have an independent technician inspect the piano prior to purchase.

Keep us posted!!


Keith Keeler
Sales Manager
Allegro Pianos
205 West 58th St
New York, NY 10019
Representing: New Bosendorfer-Bluthner-Estonia-Haessler-Kawai-Steingraber Pianos
Re: New or used Estonia
ygm #2062053 04/09/13 03:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,338
A
Bronze Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Bronze Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,338
ygm,

The SMP (Suggested Maximum Price) of a brand-new Estonia L190 is $41,168. You might be able to negotiate the price down to $32,000 - $37,000. However, L190s are extremely popular now, and the dealer may not be in a negotiating mood. Doesn't hurt to inquire.

Both the L168 and L190 have been given glowing reviews, but the L190 is 9 inches longer, and in that size range 9 inches means a lot. I would opt for the L190, but at a better price than the initial offer.

The 2006 piano was built after Dr. Laul took over Estonia in 2002, and thus has the benefit of the significant changes Laul made in the design. However, I understand that he has made even more changes since then. It might be worth your while to audition a new L190, and decide whether the newest version is worth the extra cost.


Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
Steinway Spiro Layering
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
(ad) SWEETWATER Cyber Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
CLP 735 vs CA49 vs HP704
by Einaudio - 12/02/20 02:49 PM
Is there a term for this?
by TBell - 12/02/20 02:04 PM
Something cheerful, please!
by gooddog - 12/02/20 01:53 PM
Corona Virus Lock Down....
by Duaner - 12/02/20 12:49 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics203,213
Posts3,029,683
Members99,449
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4