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#2057946 - 04/01/13 05:36 PM What's behind the pinblock of a Knight upright?  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4
Andrej L Offline
Junior Member
Andrej L  Offline
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Ontario
Hi, I have a Knight piano ca. 1955 with some loose tuning pins and I'm planning to replace them with oversize pins. When I removed one pin I noticed there seems to be about an inch of empty space behind the pin block. So my question is: how is the pin block supported from behind and is it safe to hammer the pins in without doing any damage? Maybe I'm just worrying too much because it appears as though all the pins have already been driven in deeper previously, but I'd appreciate any feedback.

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#2057971 - 04/01/13 06:05 PM Re: What's behind the pinblock of a Knight upright? [Re: Andrej L]  
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David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Scotland
Have you thought of trying the CA (Superglue) treatment? Re-pinning seems a major undertaking for a 1950s Knight upright.

#2058003 - 04/01/13 07:29 PM Re: What's behind the pinblock of a Knight upright? [Re: Andrej L]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Minnesota Marty  Offline

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Joined: May 2012
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Rochester MN
It could be shining armor or chain mail.

(Sorry, the date made me do it!)


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2058048 - 04/01/13 09:33 PM Re: What's behind the pinblock of a Knight upright? [Re: Andrej L]  
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kpembrook Offline
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kpembrook  Offline
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Michigan
Originally Posted by Andrej L
Hi, I have a Knight piano ca. 1955 with some loose tuning pins and I'm planning to replace them with oversize pins. When I removed one pin I noticed there seems to be about an inch of empty space behind the pin block. So my question is: how is the pin block supported from behind and is it safe to hammer the pins in without doing any damage? Maybe I'm just worrying too much because it appears as though all the pins have already been driven in deeper previously, but I'd appreciate any feedback.


Well, what can you see from the back? There are no backposts on a Knight so there may not be anything.

Knights are nice pianos. Alfie designed one of the nicest 4'7" pianos I ever saw. (I have to say, regardless of my opinion that it an exercise in futility).


Keith Akins, RPT
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#2058838 - 04/03/13 05:25 PM Re: What's behind the pinblock of a Knight upright? [Re: kpembrook]  
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Andrej L Offline
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Andrej L  Offline
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Ontario
There are 4 backposts but they're only about 1.5" deep and the area behind the pinblock is completely enclosed.
I'm not planning to repin the whole thing, just a half dozen or so, and maybe I'll just use shims.
I'm just thinking I probably shouldn't hammer the pins in on this type of upright.

#2058884 - 04/03/13 07:46 PM Re: What's behind the pinblock of a Knight upright? [Re: Andrej L]  
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David Boyce Offline
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David Boyce  Offline
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Posts: 1,089
Scotland
Andrej_L, before resorting to shims, why not try the CA (superglue) technique. I've been using it a bit recently for the odd loose pin instead of hammering further into the block. You don't need to have the piano on its back, and it works very quickly, really within seconds.

#2058900 - 04/03/13 08:37 PM Re: What's behind the pinblock of a Knight upright? [Re: David Boyce]  
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Andrej L Offline
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Andrej L  Offline
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Ontario
I'm just a beginner when it comes to pin tightening techniques. I might just try the CA method, I'm open to anything, but I also don't mind spending a little more time and effort to try the method that will be most effective in the long run.

#2058907 - 04/03/13 08:56 PM Re: What's behind the pinblock of a Knight upright? [Re: Andrej L]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
kpembrook Offline
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kpembrook  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
Michigan
Originally Posted by Andrej L
I'm just a beginner when it comes to pin tightening techniques. I might just try the CA method, I'm open to anything, but I also don't mind spending a little more time and effort to try the method that will be most effective in the long run.


In my experience, the CA is likely to be a long-lasting repair.

Are the loose pins in a row (straight line?) If so, then oversize pins are definitely the wrong thing to do and CA may not be too helpful. That repair would likely involve plugging and redrilling.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
#2058940 - 04/03/13 10:55 PM Re: What's behind the pinblock of a Knight upright? [Re: kpembrook]  
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Andrej L Offline
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Andrej L  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4
Ontario

No, They are not in a row. I don't think there are serious cracks, just an overall looseness with the odd pin that goes out of tune after a short time when the piano is played loudly. The Piano has spent years in a humid church basement.

#2058970 - 04/04/13 12:08 AM Re: What's behind the pinblock of a Knight upright? [Re: Andrej L]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member
kpembrook  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
Michigan
Originally Posted by Andrej L

No, They are not in a row. I don't think there are serious cracks, just an overall looseness with the odd pin that goes out of tune after a short time when the piano is played loudly. The Piano has spent years in a humid church basement.


Then I'd do the CA


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
#2059103 - 04/04/13 08:19 AM Re: What's behind the pinblock of a Knight upright? [Re: Andrej L]  
Joined: Feb 2012
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RestorerPhil Offline
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RestorerPhil  Offline
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Georgia, USA
I cast a vote toward CA, also.

Considering, however, that you mentioned that the tuning pins have already been driven (tapped deeper by a previous technician to increase tuning pin friction), it might be better to go ahead and lay the piano back. The trick of drilling holes in the *bushings may be worthwhile as well - to have a better chance of getting the liquid down in the block, before it reacts and hardens. You will have less room to work in the reduced spaces between the coils and the plate. If the bushings are sloppy loose due to the humidity cycles it has seen, you won't even need to drill.

*If the Knight has bushings??


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