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#2059556 - 04/05/13 02:19 AM Re: Ivory II through Avantgrand (N1) Speakers [Re: Albatrossone]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 39
Wess. Chr. K. Offline
Full Member
Wess. Chr. K.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 39
Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted by Albatrossone

Ps - also asked yamaha about the more limited midi range so ill report back if they say anything ( though I personally think its a limitation of using the acoustic action and/or of the sensors ability to register the speed).


Absolutely! That is the only logical explanation about velocity curve, but somewhere in this forum was report about the same issues with CLP?
Why then?
And also, one important fact – at "vel. 0" the MIDI sends "Aftertouch at 127" control which spoils pianos like East WestQL.
It took me a lot of effort to find it monitoring all my MIDI devices.
I had to disable "Aft.touch" on software MIDI filter to use AG as a MIDI controller when playing EWQL Pianos.

The piano (AG) is good, but not the best because it has a number of details that have not been decided to make the piano working also as an external MIDI keyboard controller.

For retail EU price ca. €6450 this instrument had to offer more versatile control over the signal input/output, adequate but not sounding cheep reverb, MIDI key. vel.-curves and so on, to support USB audio AIFF or WAV or MP3 (play/import/export) format and many other options, that are found on such instruments as Kawai and Rolland, even that they sound compressed and emitting unrealistically tang sound (pop or rock alike) at high velocity.

As many of us that picked up AG, I chose it mainly for the keyboard action and sound (for composing and teaching my 6 y.o. son).
In addition about its own (AG N1) sound system: when I compare the sound to the same signal going to studio monitors (in my case Genelec) – N1 sounds nice, piano like and of course "woody", in positive sense.
However, playing much louder than normal piano does, there are specific resonant zones between 350-800 Hz due to the body on AG N1, which over exaggerates "piano acoustic".

Talking from my short (only 2 months) experience, this AG N1 sounds better when internal speakers and external Genelec monitors are switched together in parallel (at "12 o'clock" or on 50% volume control knob AG N1 to more than 50%-60% Genelec).
It fils the studio very nice with added reverb form Altiverb ("Shubert hall").

For sake of that treat, as many other colleagues, I also would suggest you to take one external sound card and to control the output of your laptop.
Mac or PC – it does not really matter, because the sound is being reproduced by the external device.

Just as an budget example:

http://www.musicstore.de:80/de_DE/EUR/Focusrite-Saffire-PRO-24-Firewire-Audio-Interface/art-PCM0009017-000

In EU is about € 250 and one of the most important option on it is the build in MIDI interface.
Thus you will not need to struggle with pulse noise, high "Pegel", full of issues "MIDI to USB" interfaces such as "M-audio MIDI spot" or ~3 times more expensive (ca. €63) but working very well "Yamaha UX16 MIDI Interface".

Just a pare of (DIN) MIDI cables – they are much cheeper than both mentioned above.
IMHO, on the ground of more than 6000 (EUR/USD) man pay for AG N1 it is as a kind of "must have" accessory.

I wish you success finding the best solution for you.

Last edited by Wess. Chr. K.; 04/05/13 02:23 AM.

Best regards,
Wess
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#2062331 - 04/10/13 08:55 AM Re: Ivory II through Avantgrand (N1) Speakers [Re: Wess. Chr. K.]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 20
Albatrossone Offline
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Albatrossone  Offline
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Posts: 20
So Yamaha have done some testing and found that the signal gets attenuated going through the N1 too. So definitely a widespread issue. They are going to look into it further,

In the meantime would a headphone amp do the trick to boost the line level before it goes into the piano? Just trying to think of something more unobtrusive than a mixer...

#2062351 - 04/10/13 10:27 AM Re: Ivory II through Avantgrand (N1) Speakers [Re: Albatrossone]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 391
Allan W. Offline
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Allan W.  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 391
Maryland
Headphone amp is a good idea.


1980 Yamaha C7 from Rick Jones (http://imgur.com/a/duLJb)
Kawai MP-10
Previously: 2012 Young Chang Y175, which was quite impressive for the price
#2062361 - 04/10/13 11:58 AM Re: Ivory II through Avantgrand (N1) Speakers [Re: Albatrossone]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 931
emenelton Offline
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emenelton  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 931
behringer makes some nice Xenyx model mixers that are small

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#2062378 - 04/10/13 12:51 PM Re: Ivory II through Avantgrand (N1) Speakers [Re: Albatrossone]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,366
Marko in Boston Offline
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Marko in Boston  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,366
Boston, Massachusetts


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2062491 - 04/10/13 05:52 PM Re: Ivory II through Avantgrand (N1) Speakers [Re: Albatrossone]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 39
Wess. Chr. K. Offline
Full Member
Wess. Chr. K.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 39
Sofia, Bulgaria
Do you play "Ivory II" via host (Cuabase, Logic, Pro tools) or as a standalone app.?

As we know, the host applications have many advantages, but two of of the most important for playing "live" are the "output level control" and "reverb".
Personally I prefer – "Altiverb".
Before start playing on AG N1 (talking about "Ivory II") is necessary to adjust the velocity curve to your manner of playing.
More than 4 days after I picked up the AG N1 I experimented and find the most relevant set up for me.

With those changes (look at the screenshots) my colleagues and I feel the keyboard very comfortable and enjoy Ivory II American concert D.
Thus "ppp-fff" are absolutely possible.

In the "yellow" boxes are highlighted all values.
The lowest dynamic I get (after SONNOX "inflator") was -45.7 db (left pedal noise). When played A1-440 Hz with left pedal: ca. -39db.
After the insert on master output the highest value was -0.3db.

You can try it and I would be happy to discus this subject here.
I stay opened and would be thankful for any suggestions and positive ideas of yours.

Best regards,
Wess

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Cubase 7 set up view:

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Wess. Chr. K.; 04/10/13 06:07 PM.

Best regards,
Wess
#2062512 - 04/10/13 06:34 PM Re: Ivory II through Avantgrand (N1) Speakers [Re: Albatrossone]  
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 288
electone2007 Offline
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electone2007  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 288
Philippines
Originally Posted by Albatrossone
Hello

Has anyone had any success doing this? I have tried however I simply can't get the volume. This is outputing from a laptop headphone jack. I can get plenty of volume hooking the laptop to a cheap low power 2.1 system.

I have also hooked up a PC with a decent audio interface to the Avantgrand line ins and I can get a reasonable volume if I use pro level signals (+4dBU) but still not great and that's at full volume.

It may be an issue with the Avantgrand line inputs - on paper at least it seems like there is a reasonable amount of amplifier power in there!

Is there something else I can do to up the power? If not I am either stuck with getting an external interface for the laptop and hoping it gives me enough volume, or getting a decent 2.1 setup. I know that both together would probably be the best of both worlds but I'm trying to keep everything uncluttered, hence the reason for using the internal speakers in the first place.

Any suggestions very welcome! - including 2.1 options if you think that's the way to go (budget is probably £100 - £200).

Cheers
Nick

PS - despite listening very closely to the decay, I am unable to perceive the noise gate issue mentioned elsewhere.


Feed your laptop signal through a mixer and send mixer output to line in of AG. That way you can adjust gain to your heart's content. A cheap 2 to 4 channel mixer will do.

I had a Clavinova CLP and it had the same issue. I was so happy after I bought a small Behringer Xenyx mixer.

Last edited by electone2007; 04/10/13 06:38 PM.
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