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Yeah that's a nice class did that one and still improvising on it. The good about it is that u only have 1 "chord" and 1 "scale". Somehow I find it hard top improv over for example a 2-5-1 in min. Let's say for example 2-5-1 in D minor played as:
E-b5, A7b9b13, D-.
Now we have for each chord another "basic" scale if I'm right (ofcourse one can play any scale if he wants to..). This will be: E Locrian #2, A Super Locrian, D dorian. Cause these have other notes it seems like my ear refuses to accept that there are 3 different scales played in one 2-5-1... while in a maj 2-5-1 one can use the same scale (in case you don't play the 1 lydian) cause the Major 1 scale gives you 2 Dorian and 5 mixolydian.

Anyway, talking about scales quick question. If you think for example of C min 7 b 5. You can think of a scale from C (locrian #2 mode) or melodic minor from Eb. Is there any reason not to think as in melodic minor from Eb.. because that's much easier. As you can also use your melodic minor scales for other chords like C7b9b13 one can start melodic minor from Db in stead of thinking "1 b2 b3 3 b5 b6 b7".

At the jazz camp I attend, the pianist teaches just that:
Over half diminished, play melodic minor a minor third up.
Over altered dominant, play melodic minor a half step up.
Over regular dominant, play melodic minor a fifth up (lydian dominant).

That system never worked for me, but if it's easier for you it is clearly a good way to go.

lost wood,
I can make it simple for you.
over a minor 251, use harmonic minor. focus on easy scales and solid feel before moving on to fancy scales.

practice minor 251s in one key at a time, maybe 15 mins each key.
do it for 6 keys:
c d e f g a
those are the keys most common unless you will play with a singer, but even then, you should be able to fall within those keys.
practice improvising with mostly 8th notes, at about 72 bpm
then you can record and share.

when u have major 251 in 12 keys and minor in 6, you just need to add the occasional dominant chord and you're set for 80÷ of real book tunes.

Thx I'll try that. Though still thinking my lines don't make any sense lol.
But with harmomic minor you mean over 2-5-1 in C for example, C harmonic minor?
Will work for 2 and 5 so thanks for that but for 1? The Ab and G don't go together and B and Bb will neither..?

no bb
b natural will work great. you can voice your c minor with either a or b.
c harm minor will work just fine.
also use a lot of arpeggios. 1357 and 3579.
then your lines will make sense.
later you will add melodic minor and all sorts of stuff, but harmonic minor is a simple way to navigate the minor 251s.

repeating again because it's super important.
develop great feel and time before fancy scales. noone hears scales but yourself and the occasional expert.
everyone hears time, feel and tone.

Thanks again.
Mayb I'll post a little practice vid soon so some of you can see what I do (and don't) know. Cause you see me firing questions in this thread at will without knowing where I'm at
Only thing holding me back playing much is this elbow/underarm injury which is taking looong time. So only practice very short sessions lately.

Personally I don't think it is necessary. Or beneficial for that matter. Jazz is a musical style that is so far removed from classical that IMHO the jazz piano is a different instrument altogether.
I have been a jazz player for 35 years, have never had more than a passing desire to play anything else. From what I have learned I would say that jazz is conceptually different. It presents a series of challenges that playing classical music just does not prepare one to do.
And visa versa. Improvising over the most demanding chord progressions will not prepare a person for the complexities of classical music.
Finally, for my ear, and for want of a better word, most classical pianists that transition to jazz sound a little too white bread. And I want the bourbon and beans, man!

Sorry, don't know how my post ended up here. Well, I do, I posted it. Unintentionally. I was responding to a question about whether one should have a foundation in classical music before playing jazz

I think you`re right here. I don`t know of anybody who can do both to a state of excellence. But I bet there`s somebody out there . .

I did listen to a 9yo boy who was playing advanced classics. I mentioned this "broadeing of his horizons" subject as tactly as I could, on Youtube. His proud mother, she told me he already did . . . .!

[video:youtube]FJjG10jrdg0[/video]

Am I right if I say Brubeck is switching here between F- and A- keys?
And if it's true, is there a certain reason this works so well? Sounds great, as my leadsheet is in E- (and I know the tune in E-) I have to switch beteween E- and Ab- or C- and E- I guess?

About classical music and jazz ... an observation is many fabulous jazz pianists studied classical music extensively. The thing is, the piano has history (and techniques that accumulate in that history) across several hundred years. Most of those techniques come from the classical tradition. Barry Harris, Fred Hersch, and Ethan Iverson still study with Sophia Rosoff. Madame Chaloff, in Boston, was the gateway to technique for several generations of pianists including Steve Kuhn, Jaki Byard, Kenny Werner, Hal Galper and a million others. Bill Evans was once quoted as saying something like "Bach will straighten you out quickly!" Keith Jarrett and Chick Corea have recorded classical repertoire. Herbie Hancock's mentioned many times that Ravel has been one of his major influences. Oscar Peterson and Paul Bley had very intensive classical training, as did Richie Beirach. There are a million others with this kind of experience as well. And Hal Galper wrote in one of his books that there's no real difference between jazz and classical technique.

So, all of that said ... it's up to any us as to what we might do all the techniques and styles and approaches the piano allows. In a totally different art form Bruce Lee said something like "Use what's useful and disgard the rest!" How we interpret that is up to us!

Does anyone know what kind of solo left hand piano style brubeck is using here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVjE_izUa2M from 2:20

He does it a lot (also here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceiDpI_ZabA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXBzaHAojgk)

Looks like just starting off with a chord on every beat? And later on jump between root and chord or something like that? It doens't sound too hard but therefore it's really nice for the ear I think especially with the block chord style of playing in the right hand.

After 6+ years I recently changed teachers. Assignment today is autumn leaves in the Real Book...I'm enjoying the change in teachers. On my 3 set of scale cords. C, F, B flat

LW,

He's using 4 to the bar, like you say chord on each beat, playing with time in the RH. Check out Erroll Garner for some great examples of this.
Sometimes also using a technique called "Faux Stride".

Dave Frank describes both in his video on advanced LH techniques.

Thx I've watched it before and watching it again. Very useful video it is. What I do see and was wondering about back then was: Dave Frank is using certain "inversions" of chords or even changing chords. Is there a certain rule about this? Cause with him is sounds great. I see him make switches between C-7 and C-6 for instance.. it's not just "4 beats same chord" somehow he's mixing it up, cause on the lead sheet there is C-7 for 8 beats which would sounds repetitive if I play it.

Btw: link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CGOSToQWv0 from 16:20.

Maybe odd question but does anyone know a pianist who's solo's are like chet baker? Cause I like his solo flows a lot sometimes much more than the "see how many notes I can fit in my solo" style of approach a lot of pianist happen to have. I know it's another instrument but still...

Btw I lend this "Solo Jazz Piano, The Linear Approach" book from the library.. can't wait to start with it

Lost Woods ... looking at horn player for piano inspiration is a great thing to do! If you get the Hal Leonard Chet Baker Artist Transcriptions and play the solos (all of them) along with the original recordings, you'll end up knowing how to play more or less like Chet Baker. That's probably a great idea for exactly the reason you mention.

The transcriptions, I'm sure, are in Bb. But with Transcribe can you can adjust the key of the recordings - so your piano can match to the transcriptions.

The goal would be to play the transcriptions up to speed and as close in phrasing as you can to the recording. Or you could sing the transcriptions instead of playing them. Or play AND sing.

The traditional way is transcribe the solos yourself. That said, the book gives you a lot of solos and really, the most important thing is get them in your ear. Learning EVERY solo in the book may sound excessive but it will teach you a lot about CB's style.

As you learn the solos play them at any tempo or out of tempo or whatever's helpful ... Play them w/your LF etc. The important thing: Get them lodged and stuck in your ears!

Hope this helps!

>>Cause with him is sounds great. I see him make switches between C-7 and C-6 for instance..
LW,
most of the time, you'll try to create some variety with the thumb. That creates a bit of counter melody. It doesn't have to be complicated, but just simple step or half step movement will provide some interest.

Don't try to play as fast as DF is playing there, bring it way down. 72-80bpm is a good tempo to start. If you can control great at that tempo, bringing up to 160 will be no sweat. But if you can't play slow, you'll never really get to fix it at the faster tempos.

Thanks again I think I'm figuring this thing called jazz piano out bit by bit with thanks to you all. The main problem I had was that I didn't know what inversion to play but with help of the first chapter "Solo Jazz Piano, The Linear Approach" book I know which register is best for laying down the chords.