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Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052177 03/21/13 10:14 PM
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Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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So glad this worked well for you.

For future reference to post readers I would suggest posting the serial number on Pianoworld, because many Techs and dealers share stolen piano information, so if they see the stolen piano the authorities can be notified.

I do wonder about the supposed offer to buy from a dealer at a higher price than what you paid. Why didn't the seller take that offer. Or was it an estimate of a consignment sale proceedings?


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Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: rnaple] #2052477 03/22/13 12:26 PM
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minty_mommy Offline OP
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Originally Posted by rnaple

Now all you have to worry about is the cops knocking on your front door. Do you have a plan to hide the piano? Maybe disguise it as an overgrown Saint Bernard?
Don't mean to rain on your party.
Just don't go getting a parrot that says: Come in!...When someone knocks on the front door.


Seriously? Is this comment really necessary?

Anyway, I ended up wiring the money but not until I was there with the movers. The movers waited with me for an hour until the fund went through.

As for why the owner didn't go with the other offers, I don't know what she thought but I know that I was the first to offer and came over to check out the piano (same day). I also told the owner that the piano was for my daughter and sent her a video of my daughter playing. She said she was impressed and felt that the piano would be in good hands. Good, decent people still exist in the world, I guess.

Anyway, here are some pictures:
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Last edited by minty_mommy; 03/22/13 12:44 PM.
Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052479 03/22/13 12:30 PM
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shaolin95 Offline
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Simply Gorgeous! Glad everything worked out for you at the end! smile


*Young Chang Y185 6'-1"

*Baldwin Hamilton Studio '67 (gone)

*Young Chang Y150 (Del F design) (gone)
Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052482 03/22/13 12:32 PM
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Gatsbee13 Offline
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Glad they came through.. What state was this in btw?

Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052506 03/22/13 01:14 PM
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fishbulb Offline
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Beautiful! Amazing that you did a craigslist wire deal and still actually ended up with the goods. Here's hoping that you didn't just buy a stolen piano ( receiving stolen property is a very serious federal crime and your transaction certainly qualifies), or that a dealer doesn't show up with the cops and demand his piano back. eek

You've got guts to go through with the deal, but since it seems like it turned out to be legitimate, you DID get a great deal on a great piano.

Also, definitely get some caster cups for the feet. For $30-40, they will look a lot nicer than the cardboard, and do a better job distributing the weight and protecting the wood floor. You will need a couple of strong guys to lift each end of the piano carefully while you place the cups though.

Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052523 03/22/13 01:39 PM
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concertina Offline
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My understanding is that it's only a crime if you know it's stolen. Mintymommy appears to have acted in good faith here, so hopefully her family can just enjoy the piano without a lot of needless guilt.

Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052530 03/22/13 01:56 PM
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fishbulb Offline
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For the federal crime, you don't have to know beyond all doubt - you only need to be in a circumstance where a reasonable person would suspect/believe that the goods are stolen - in order to satisfy the requirement for the crime. Because of the varied nature of these types of circumstances, it usually comes down to the specific case, the judge, and how good your counsel is (and possibly the jury if it gets that far).

For the state crimes, in some states you must "know" for certain, in many states, you need only reasonably "suspect" that they are stolen, and in the scariest states, you don't even have to have a suspicion that it's stolen to still be committing a crime.

There was one case in my state where a person was successful prosecuted for receiving stolen property under the argument that because he had bought the goods at night (and the seller would only meet at night) he should have suspected it was a shady deal.

I agree though, to me it seems like she did indeed act in good faith and did her best to check out the deal in advance. Hopefully nothing comes of it.

disclaimer: this is not legal advice; for legal advice consult your legal professional etc.

Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052531 03/22/13 02:01 PM
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Gatsbee13 Offline
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Don't mean to go off-topic, but are most stolen pianos just pianos that people have stopped making payments on and have not been repossessed?

Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052619 03/22/13 04:12 PM
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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(Enough already ---)

MM - Enjoy your new piano! It is lovely and will provide you with endless enjoyment. When you schedule your first tuning, you might mention to the tuner that you would like the insides cleaned. Soundboard dust is merely visual, but cleaning the action, and the key bed, is a good idea with a used instrument.

It's nice to know that there are still good people out there!

I've never seen a pedal lyre like that one on a Steinway. What is the year?


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052681 03/22/13 06:06 PM
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rnaple Offline

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Originally Posted by minty_mommy

Seriously? Is this comment really necessary?


Seriously. Yes. This worries me. Hang on to all you gathered to verify this. Keep it for years. You may thank me one day.
I have to break out in humor when very worried. It's how some people handle it.
I worked for CSD as an operator at one time. I've heard many scams.
What if her ex-husband's lawyer shows up at the door? Middle of a divorce?
I knew a guy who gave his entire gun collection away on a street corner. One at a time. Swore his ex wouldn't get a penny from them.


Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052683 03/22/13 06:09 PM
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Gatsbee13 Offline
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what?

Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052701 03/22/13 07:14 PM
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PianoFlyer Offline
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Congratulations on a Beautiful Piano! I can see why you didn't want to let this one go.


4th Time Beginner...But this time I'm SERIOUS!

2008 Perzina GP-129
1998 Technics SX-PX222
1929 J&C Fischer (restoration project, family heirloom)
Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052713 03/22/13 07:37 PM
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A little off topic -- as to why a seller might sell to someone who didn't offer the highest price:

When I sold my house, I had two open house showings a week apart. Five minutes after the close of the first showing, a neighbor showed up and made an offer for her sister who was moving in from out of state. Since I had already bought another house, I was eager to sell. I accepted her offer.

After the second showing, another couple made a higher offer. Although I was selling without a realtor, this couple involved their own agent (unnecessarily, IMO), who wanted ME to pay her commission, even though I had done all the advertising and open houses and had arranged for all the paperwork, to save money for both myself and the buyer. I was a little miffed by this realtor's in your face attitude. Although my agreement with the first person, my neighbor, was only verbal at this point, I chose to honor that agreement.

It is possible the seller of your piano also had legitimate reasons for accepting your lower bid.

Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: Annitenth] #2052789 03/23/13 02:28 AM
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rnaple Offline

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Originally Posted by Annitenth
A little off topic -- as to why a seller might sell to someone who didn't offer the highest price:


To offer some comfort. It may also be because you were the only one to show up in person. You were the only one who appeared legit.

The big scam on Craigslist is from so called buyers. They wire money to you in buying what you have. Have their mover show up to pick it up. Then, months later, they pull the money back out of your account. The buyer says they are in another state. The big problem is they are in another country. The account where the money came from is in another country. It is international law that they can recall money sent to the US at anytime. You cannot stop it.

You really should have your bank give you the info on the bank that you wired the money to. Just for info. Just in case. Please save everything you have gathered on this.

I truly do wish you the best. That is a beautiful Steinway. Hope you enjoy it.


Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052829 03/23/13 05:49 AM
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miscrms Offline
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Amazing! Thanks for the pics and hope your daughter loves it!!!

Rob

Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052846 03/23/13 07:42 AM
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rlinkt Offline
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Congratulations! You got a gorgeous piano! I am sure it will serve your daughter well for many many years to come! Please post some sound clips when you get a chance!

I hope the naysayers do not keep you away from the forum.

Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052890 03/23/13 09:29 AM
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Very nice piano. I'm certain your daughter will enjoy it for many years.


Dennis
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flickr

Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052902 03/23/13 09:54 AM
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Minty Mom, congrats! Your newly acquired piano looks beautiful.

Here's to many happy years with an amazing instrument. thumb


Patty

A tired dog is a good dog.

Perzina GP-187
Kawai CP209


Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: minty_mommy] #2052966 03/23/13 01:14 PM
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Jeff Clef Offline
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It looks quite wonderful--- my idea (from when I was growing up) of what a grand piano is supposed to look like.

It sounds as if you had, at least, some of the confirmations that the sale was authentic, including the original sales receipt from the dealer (made out in the name of the person whom you later spoke with identified as the owner, and to whom the wire transfer was made). I find the idea credible that the owner may have preferred to sell to you for the sake of your daughter's music education, rather than back to the dealer. It's also possible that, since you made the first offer and it was accepted, they felt honor-bound to keep the commitment. It is surprising that a dealer offered more than a private buyer--- that sheep is usually clipped differently. Maybe they had other things on their mind than shopping the sale for the best offer. Anyway, to my mind and possibly that of a judge or jury, you had reason to believe the sale was on the up-and-up.

To me, the big question is not whether the sheriff is going to show up at your door, but the condition of the musical instrument underneath the beautiful veneer... though you may have a fair idea if an actual RPT (certified by Piano Technicians Guild http://ptg.org ) has examined it. I find the suggestion that the RPT may have been in cahoots with a fraud or theft, to be far-fetched.

I hope you do realize that our members were not trying to torment you, but to protect you. And I hope you'll let us know how it works out in the future.


Clef

Re: Help! Need advice for buying on craiglist [Re: Jeff Clef] #2053082 03/23/13 05:17 PM
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AndyJ Offline
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Originally Posted by Jeff Clef
.... I find the suggestion that the RPT may have been in cahoots with a fraud or theft, to be far-fetched....

I didn't mean to suggest that! By surrounding RPT in quotation marks I was trying to suggest that the person represented as an RPT was really an accomplice.

But hopefully this unusual transaction was just one of those things that happens sometimes. I bought my first house in very unusual circumstances and it worked out great in the end.

Andy

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