Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai ES7 user thread

I have been working with sound options (blending, layering, EQing, etc ...) for a few years, now, and have found that there may not be anything that qualifies as a "perfect" sound. They are all just different. Even the ones I think are great begin to fade from favor after awhile. Other forum members have found the same thing. That is why you will see various posters indicating they would like to hear how someone feels about their "perfect sound" after another month or more. The way we feel about sounds seem to vary with time.

Right now, I am very pleased with almost any sound I get with most of my blendings or just straight ES7 Concert Grand sound. That may be a testament to my sound equipment and/or the sound generated by the ES7. That may not last, but for now it is very enjoyable.

Check out this clip of the ES7 in a live audience performance at some club. You cant really see the piano but clearly hear it. Not bad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-iXI2nZcgc

Blimey Mark, is that you? Playing the piano I mean . . . Sounds good, man. And the lady kept her kit on . . ! What can ya say? A good time was had by all . . .

I've noticed that, when recording via USB stick and then using Audacity to amplify the track, there is only one waveform displayed (mono?)when I record in wav. format, but two (stereo) when I do it in MP3.

Does it mean that WAV recordings are mono (in order to reduce the file size?), or is there anything I've missed?

Thanks.

Hmmm...that dooesn't sound right. The USB audio recorder should create stereo files for both WAV and MP3 formats.

How are you opening the WAV file in Audacity?
What happens if you open the file properties for the file (using Windows Explorer or Finder on a Mac)?

Cheers,
James
x

Hi James, I just create a new project. Though there's only one waveform displayed on the screen, I can see two channels going at different sound levels on the soundbar. File properties indicate it's stereo, thanks. (some of these days I won't be a technodonkey anymore).

Re experimenting with different sounds: I too have tried all sorts of combinations. FWIW, I have settled (for now at least) with EQ Low -1, Mid low 0, Mid high +1, High +2; Mellow1, normal touch curve, damper res 10, damper noise 5, string res 10, key off effect 5, fallback noise 5, hammer delay 3, equal (piano) temp, wide stretch. Works well in a room about 12 feet by 12 feet with composers between Bach and Brahms. When I come to Rachmaninov I need to wheel out the concert grand.

My experience with blending mellow and concert grand - to tone down the concert brightness and add a bit of bite to the mellow - was disappointing in that somehow I can hear the two voices and it ends up sounding artificial.

The ES7 is a great piano. Note the word "piano", not "digital piano". I'm still amazed that I can play Bach without the sustain and find it satisfying. Kawai are getting there with capturing the resonance of an acoustic piano.

When I blend two pianos I always have to make some changes on the Layer Dynamics (Key Settings menu) and Layer Volume.
The first is for avoiding what you pointed before (2 pianos sounding toghether) and getting just a little of the character from the layered one, but keeping the tone of the main one at the forefront.
And as a said some posts before, equal blends don't work. It has to be 2:8 or 3:7 maximum, other way it sounds awfully (unless I'm missing something, as usual ).

Now, a question for you, ES7 owners: anyone hearing middle E natural (Concert Grand 1) sounding waaay more metallic than the other notes, as it should be if the attack was forte?
Not a big problem, but sounds ugly enough to make me prefer Mellow Grand almost always. It doesn't happen there.
I was wondering if it's normal, or there is something that could be fixed via update. It's just one note.

Saludos.

Yes, I hear the same exact thing.

Actually, I do not seem to notice it all of the time but most of the time.

Like you said, it is not a biggie but it definitely is there.

Yep, and in the Studio Grand voice, this happens on middle F, but it's less noticeable due to the overall twangy sound, which disguises it.
This is the reason why I blend mellow with concert grand, keeping mellow at the forefront. Central scale sounds pretty better on the mellows. But who cares, it's just the one you play the most!
IMO, there are three possible explanations for that:
-A deaf person is checking the sound, or
-A deaf person was tunning the Grand, or
-It's all about realism, to avoid a sterile sound

Last night I played until 1:30 and made some (unconclusive) comparissons between different AP EQ and blends I had already done: Concert "the twangy E" Grand 1; CG1/MellowG1 (layered 8:2 and then 2:8, and changing layer dynamics while moving from one to the other); CG2/MG2; MG1 alone.
Headphones on. String ress. up to 9, damper ress. up to 7.

Obviously, the clearest sound is CG1, but it lacks some sweetness in the central octave, no matter the voicing you choose. And, Jesus, that middle E kills me!
There goes the first blend, which I like a lot (CG1/MG1) but is a little confusing when the sustain is pressed or at forte passages (some weird rings and overtones that were already mentioned long before on this thread). Perhaps less string and damper ressonance would do the job, here. Playing without the pedal, highest string values are almost perfect, though.
MG1: the later into the night, the better it sounds. Just some less bass and bright1 voicing to avoid muddy chords.
CG2/MG2: mmmmmmmmm...Sweet and warm and dirty as can be, but again confusing. I'd swear it's from the previous sound generation (based in my ears). Dynamics are not that good, or detailed, overall volume is lower. I need to work more on this one!
If I have some time to kill this weekend, I threaten to perpetrate some recordings of the same piece on these different sounds.

Hi dmd and mabraman, Ive been reading your past few posts. I don't believe I am experiencing any metallic or twangy sound from middle E or F on my ES7. In fact it's very pleasing and seems right on especially in GC1. I am listening with my Sennheiser HD380PRO through Mackie 402VLZ3 Mixer.

However, Not sure if any of this is related: Im on my third ES7. Yes third, please read:
The first ES7 I bought had to be returned immediately because middle E was dead. The key mechanics worked fine just no sound. Dealer swapped it out instantly. My second ES7 had several sound issues that seemed in line with what you are discussing. Seemed like it sounded great with headphones I and was enjoying it immensely, however I ended up returning it again for three reasons; metallic "tinny" sounds on some keys via on board speakers - not too bad but noticable, distortion from left speaker area even at mid volume - drove me crazy, and eventually sustain stopped working even with a second new pedal - that's when i figured I had another lemon. So, brought it back again. Dealer was amazingly accommodating and gave me a THIRD ES7 in the box without hesitation - great dealer! This last ES7 I had for a month and it seems flawless and quite different from the past two. The on board speakers seem much better than the past two; very clear, better tone, handles low end nicely even near full volume - almost can keep up with a CP300... I said almost. But like a CP300 you can feel the vibration/resonance in your fingers when playing. The sound via headphones even seems much clearer and powerful pushing the headphones even without the Mackie. So, maybe this last ES7 was off a different production run than the other two, a question for Kawai James perhaps.

Nevertheless, maybe my middle E and F might sound the same as yours and my ears are not picking up on it. So, if you want me to post some sounds to compare let me know and I can try to tap a few keys that you have in question. Im new at this (recording/posting) so please be patient if needed.

Thanks for the info, Marco, and good luck with your third one (wow).
Mine works well so far, though not perfectly if I think of some sounds. Speakers, as I said, seem like a good radio-casette from the 80s' to me. And there are some weird ressonances via speakers (I guess they are phasey sounds coming from the board), but this will be another chapter to write, at the risk of James calling me Mabra-moan .

Ha! I think James has earned the right to goof on all of us for all the whining we do.

True, but we (specially you!) have all the right to complain. Our money is never deffective, is it?

By the way, what I hear is:

-CG1 : middle E natural (central scale) sounds more metallic than expected when playing mezzoforte, it has a twangy tone that might be desirable if ff played, but this is not the case. Adjacent notes sound fine, and so the other 87 as far as I know.
-Studio Grand 1: same, but for the central F and F#, now. As the whole tone of it is quite twangy (at default values) it isn't so evident, but it's there.
-Mellows: it doesn't happen, here, I can't recall any key sounding unbalanced in tone or volume all across the keybed.

And finally, as other mentioned earlier in this thread, there's an overall ringy feeling when you go at it full swing. My guess is, blame it on PHI sympathetic ressonance algorithms (so turning ressonances down should work).

Have you messed around with temperament key setting for E and F just to see if tweaking it makes any difference.

Speaking of temperament, I actually like the Werkmeister preset. Has an honest genuine sound about it. I go to it often.

I entered the menu once, just to see if it worked
But thanks for your advice, I'll give it a try tonight.

With regards to wide stretch, mentioned some posts above, I find it interesting, perhaps a little too cold, but haven't played very much with it.

Hi marbraman, The E and F on my es7 sound fine,I know the note,s seemed more ringy and muddier befor I did the up grade on my foot pedal. I forget wat its called but is updated fom a 10 to a 12. Now all the notes on my piano are nice and clean sounding.

Go here for latest v1.13 update:

http://www.kawai.co.jp/worldwide/support/updates.html

Thanks Marko, I updated to v1.13 , I made a mistake and said 12,actually I had some one else update it for me since Im a little slow with computers. I still think this is one of the most natural sounding piano,s out there.