Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
47 registered members (beeboss, alfredo capurso, Celestialgoat, Alexank, ando, AndrewGleibman, 12 invisible), 1,426 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2052289 - 03/22/13 06:18 AM Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 607
pinkfloydhomer Offline
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 607
Denmark
My own shortcomings as a piano tuner aside, what is the best and/or fastest way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano?

What do they do to a new concert piano or new recording studio piano?

I guess they tune it very often?
And hammer the keys hard to make the strings set?
Do they do other things? Pull on the strings etc?


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
(ad 800)
PTG 2017 Convention
PTG Convention 2017 St Louis
#2052352 - 03/22/13 09:08 AM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,539
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
David Jenson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,539
Maine
I knew a tuner once who sipped on an adult beverage as he tuned. He seemed to have something in one eye as he blinked it repeatedly and told me that the beverage improved the tuning stability.

In a well made, or rebuilt piano, tuning stability is largely a function of time. I've never discovered any reliable shortcuts, and I viewed the advice of the aforementioned tuner with a bit of skepticism.

Last edited by David Jenson; 03/22/13 03:54 PM. Reason: grammar correction

David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
#2052372 - 03/22/13 09:57 AM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Pianos in bars take no time at all to stabilize. Unstable ears allow for a magical transformation of infinately perfect unisons.

In all other situations, it just takes time.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2052393 - 03/22/13 10:48 AM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 387
Monaco Offline
Full Member
Monaco  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 387
GA
Make sure the coils are tight, the beckets are pushed in, and the strings are seated.


Ben Ereddia
Piano Teacher
Beginning Tech
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2052407 - 03/22/13 11:24 AM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 607
pinkfloydhomer Offline
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 607
Denmark
Heheh, good ones smile

So you guys don't do anything different if you have to tune a NEW piano very often, monthly or weekly, other than, well, tune it?


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
#2052426 - 03/22/13 12:08 PM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 585
Tunewerk Offline
500 Post Club Member
Tunewerk  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 585
Boston, MA
As far as I know, there's nothing different being done on concert or recording pianos other than tuning and some regulation work to get them settled in. They usually receive tunings extremely often anyway.

There are things that can be done however. First, setting the strings around the hitch and the bridge, tightening and setting the coils, stretching the strings, and raising the pitch to 442 or so on the first tuning. The combination of these things should settle things in very quickly.


www.tunewerk.com

Unity of tone through applied research.
#2052429 - 03/22/13 12:09 PM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Proper string seating can help. A Dampp-Chaser system can help. Using an ETD, tuning from A0 to C8, unisons as you go, and tuning the piano using the same file every time, and tuning it often, can help. Proper string setting technique is essential to any tuning, but unfortunately, varies in difficulty, depending on the piano.

#2052453 - 03/22/13 12:58 PM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Emmery  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
Look at the strings where they contact and bear off the hitch pins closely. If the radius appears a little wide or there isn't full contact on the inner perimeter it can sometimes help to reduce the tension 50% and do a pinch on the wire and then pull them back up to proper pitch. An over formed (pinched) wire on a hitch pin will conform back to a neutral stressed shape much faster than one that is under formed in my experience.


Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
#2052561 - 03/22/13 03:49 PM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member
OperaTenor  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Pianos in bars take no time at all to stabilize. Unstable ears allow for a magical transformation of infinately perfect unisons.

In all other situations, it just takes time.


I can attest to this...



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
#2052563 - 03/22/13 03:53 PM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: Emmery]  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,539
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
David Jenson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,539
Maine
Originally Posted by Emmery
Look at the strings where they contact and bear off the hitch pins closely. If the radius appears a little wide or there isn't full contact on the inner perimeter it can sometimes help to reduce the tension 50% and do a pinch on the wire and then pull them back up to proper pitch. An over formed (pinched) wire on a hitch pin will conform back to a neutral stressed shape much faster than one that is under formed in my experience.
Yea, good one. I forgot about that. 'Really helps. 'Funny, the little details you forget.


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
#2052569 - 03/22/13 03:56 PM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: OperaTenor]  
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,539
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
David Jenson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,539
Maine
Originally Posted by OperaTenor
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Pianos in bars take no time at all to stabilize. Unstable ears allow for a magical transformation of infinately perfect unisons.

In all other situations, it just takes time.


I can attest to this...

I'll bet you can! Is the Shout House a bar btw?


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
#2052626 - 03/22/13 05:22 PM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: David Jenson]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Originally Posted by David Jenson
Originally Posted by OperaTenor
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Pianos in bars take no time at all to stabilize. Unstable ears allow for a magical transformation of infinately perfect unisons.

In all other situations, it just takes time.


I can attest to this...

I'll bet you can! Is the Shout House a bar btw?

I would guess that the pianos at the Shout House are required to be very stabile, since they are in a stable. [Linked Image]


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2052641 - 03/22/13 05:54 PM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: David Jenson]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member
OperaTenor  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted by David Jenson
Originally Posted by OperaTenor
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Pianos in bars take no time at all to stabilize. Unstable ears allow for a magical transformation of infinately perfect unisons.

In all other situations, it just takes time.


I can attest to this...

I'll bet you can! Is the Shout House a bar btw?


Yes. A dueling piano bar.



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
#2052642 - 03/22/13 05:54 PM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member
OperaTenor  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
Sandy Eggo, California
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Originally Posted by David Jenson
Originally Posted by OperaTenor
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Pianos in bars take no time at all to stabilize. Unstable ears allow for a magical transformation of infinately perfect unisons.

In all other situations, it just takes time.


I can attest to this...

I'll bet you can! Is the Shout House a bar btw?

I would guess that the pianos at the Shout House are required to be very stabile, since they are in a stable. [Linked Image]


laugh



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
#2055266 - 03/27/13 06:41 PM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Here is some music from Iranian stout house :

[video:youtube]fiNwghYwwpM[/video]

piano : Steinway wink


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#2554519 - 07/06/16 08:31 AM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 607
pinkfloydhomer Offline
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 607
Denmark
As some of you may remember, I have written before about my struggles with achieving tuning stability as an amateur tuning my own piano.

I don't know whether it is my technique that has improved, if it is my newish piano (2004) and its strings that has finally reached some sort of stability itself, if it's my focus on raising humidity in the room in winter or all of the above. But nevertheless, stability is much better now.

I just tuned it again now after not tuning it for 7-8 dry and cold winter months. Almost every string was close to spot on (for stability, I've been using the same ETD tuning every time for some time now, instead of playing around with different ETDs, UTs, stretch). And most importantly, the unisons were still quite okay. Usually the first thing that bothers me stability-wise is the unisons being a little off, affecting tone. Mind you, the tone and unisons are still not perfect all year, but at least it ends up very close to where it was that last time we had the same outdoors humidity.

I guess I also have a better understanding now of how much humidity affects not only the tuning of this piano but also the tone. I used to sometimes tune my piano very often, every other week or so, just to try to repair the tone/unisons. I think now that the tuning itself is stable enough since it can end up very close to target after a winter season. I think the variations in tone and stability I experience now is seasonal and due to humidity changes. When the RH is sometimes 30% in the winter, the piano doesn't sound good even if it is in tune.

Last edited by pinkfloydhomer; 07/06/16 08:31 AM.

Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
#2554678 - 07/06/16 05:44 PM Re: Best way to achieve tuning stability of a new piano [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,491
Bob Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Bob  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,491
Florida
Sounds like both the piano and your tuning stability are improved !

I got a text today from a client - she was a pitch raise 2 months ago on a Sejung George Steck grand. In April, I raised it 50 cents and made it clear in writing that the pitch raise will slip, and a followup tuning would soon be needed. Because I made it clear, the client expected to tune it again soon, and the text was "my piano teacher says the piano is out of tune, when can you come?"

Had I not impressed on her the piano would need tuning soon, the text would have been "can you come out (for free) and fix your tuning? It didn't stay in tune"

This next tuning will be more stable, but not as stable as the tuning after that, and the tuning after that. And so on............



Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
What are the prices for kawai gx2 and essex 173?
by Piano Audio. 05/28/17 06:03 AM
An invisible music tip - ear.
by ZeroZero. 05/28/17 03:19 AM
I need help...PLEASE
by Flush. 05/27/17 10:22 PM
K. Kawai K48A from 1970 (Made in Japan)
by PianoMomCan. 05/27/17 09:45 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Report Problems With New Forums
Report Problems with New Forums Here!
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics179,928
Posts2,630,446
Members87,905
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0