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#2051242 - 03/20/13 09:10 AM modal sound  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 152
larryz Offline
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larryz  Offline
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Posts: 152
sweden
I think this theme has a nice modal sound.
Are there any theoretical rules I can use to expand on it (and still keep it modal)?
How do I analyse this theme and assert it has a modal sound?



________________3
______________2
_____T___T__T______T
_______L_____________L
_______________________6
_________________________5___5__5.
___________________________4



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#2051381 - 03/20/13 01:43 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
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rada Offline
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rada  Offline
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pagosa springs,co
I've never seen anything like that...what does it mean?

rada

#2051418 - 03/20/13 03:02 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
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Steve Chandler Offline
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Steve Chandler  Offline
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Assuming Ionian mode and T stands for tonic and L for leading tone then there's nothing modal about this that isn't also in a simple major scale. If it sounds modal it's because the 4 is not a leading tone to 5 (easily remedied with a secondary dominant giving you a #4), but that would also imply possible modulation. If I've misread your shorthand please correct me. To enhance the modal sound use more subdominant to dominant progressions or flat your leading tone or use a different mode. Most people who are savvy enough to hear a flat seventh will assume some mode is being used, hence "it sounds modal."

#2051732 - 03/21/13 04:00 AM Re: modal sound [Re: Steve Chandler]  
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larryz Offline
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larryz  Offline
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sweden
Thanks for the response!
I forgot to mention that this phrase Tonic is note C. ( Though trying the other modes, this phrase only seem "fit/sound good" at C to my ears ).

Interestingly, as you suggest, flatting the leading tone (in this case B -> Bb) sounds different, but still good.

Though trying a #4, totally removes the "modal sound".
Which suggest I may have analysed wrong. If I put Tonic at G, the phrase will begin on 4 and end on the new tonic G:

Here, T= note G. 3 is either B or Bb (but consistent).
L = note F (cant be F#).

________________6
______________5
_____4___4__4______4
_______3_____________3
_______________________2
_________________________T___T__T.
___________________________L


#2052545 - 03/22/13 03:25 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
Joined: Feb 2013
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Schubertslieder Offline
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Schubertslieder  Offline
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Dear larryz

Would you have recording of this?


Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces
#2052658 - 03/22/13 06:18 PM Re: modal sound [Re: Schubertslieder]  
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Exalted Wombat Offline
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Is this a recognised system of notation, or your own invention? It would be much easier if you showed us your melody in standard notation.

#2053028 - 03/23/13 04:02 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
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larryz Offline
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larryz  Offline
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sweden

Thanks for all the response smile I'll try do describe my theme better.

We have:
________________6
______________5
_____4___4__4______4
_______3_____________3
_______________________2
_________________________T___T__T.
___________________________L

The vertical movement is just to make it easier for the eye.
In pure numbers this theme is: 4 3 4 4 5 6 4 3 2 T L T T.

Where:
T is the tonic. The first tone in a selected scale.
In my second post I selected G as the tonic.
2 is the second diatonic tone in the scale.
3 is third.. and so on up to seven.
Seven is also called leading tone or L (not sure this is correct, because we dont always are half-step from tonic).

So if we select G as tonic, we get:

C B C C D E C B A G F G G

In G-clef score having selected G as tonic, this theme would look like:

================================================
.....................O..........................
=================O==============================
....O.....O..O..........O.......................
=======O===================O====================
...............................O................
==================================O=====O==O====
.....................................O..........
================================================


Sine my second post I have made some progress and tried to work in a second voice:


theme___________6
______________5
_____4___4__4______4
_______3_____________3
_______________________2
_________________________T___T__T.
___________________________L

Example one, all notes:
_____________________________________
____________5_____________________
______________4________4_________
_________3______3__3_____3___3____________
_______2________|____2_____2_______________
_____T__________|_______________T____________
________________|
_Example_two____6__6____________
_Share_the___________5_________
__same_beginning_________3______
___as_ex._one__________2___2_2__T___



Theme:
==================================================
.......................O..........................
===================O==============================
......O.....O..O..........O.......................
=========O===================O====================
.................................O................
====================================O=====O==O====
.......................................O..........
==================================================


second voice (example 1)
================================================
................................................
================================================
................................................
=================================================
.................................................
=============O====================================
................O............O....................
===========O=======O==O=========O======O============
........O................O.........O................
---==O====------------------------------==O==----------


second voice (example 2)


================================================
................................................
================================================
................................................
=================================================
...................O..O............................
=============O===========O=========================
................O.................................
==========O====================O====================
........O...................O.....O..O..................
---==O====------------------------------==O===----------






#2054327 - 03/26/13 12:18 AM modal sound [Re: larryz]  
Joined: Dec 2010
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LoPresti Offline
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LoPresti  Offline
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New York
Hi Larry,

Welcome to the forums. If you want any of us to take even a bit of this seriously, then use standard staff notation, with intended pitches and note values. There is a universally accepted set of symbols to represent music - let's use them.

Ed


In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.
#2054413 - 03/26/13 06:45 AM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,234
Exalted Wombat Offline
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Exalted Wombat  Offline
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Posts: 1,234
London UK
Perhaps he doesn't know how to show us notation? Could someone run down the various ways Larry could attach the output of a scorewriting program or a scan of handwritten manuscript to a message?

#2054866 - 03/26/13 10:47 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
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Schubertslieder Offline
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Schubertslieder  Offline
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Michigan, USA
Hello larryz

Your theme is as follows:
C B C C D E C B A G F G G

Second voice (example 1) is as follows:
C D E G F E E D F E D E C

Second voice (example 2) is as follows:
C D E G F A A G D E D D C

Both second voices example 1 and 2 use lower C compared to the theme, which uses upper C.

I would select the "second voice (example 1)" to show the contrast to the theme as the theme uses many upper Cs. Contrast and variety keeps music interesting in my view.





Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces
#2054869 - 03/26/13 10:54 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
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Schubertslieder Offline
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Schubertslieder  Offline
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Michigan, USA
Hello larryz

I wasn't sure if you were using both second voice examples 1 and 2 or not, so I said I would select the one that would contrast the theme.

Your piece is perhaps one of the more interesting piece of composition I have encountered in this site. It has many interesting elements.

I will be very interested to read more of your writing so continue to post.


Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces
#2054921 - 03/27/13 01:26 AM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
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Schubertslieder Offline
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Schubertslieder  Offline
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Michigan, USA
Hello larryz

One more comment:

Both of your "second voice examples" 1 and 2 are using middle c as opposed to your theme, which is using treble c.

Keep posting. It is an interesting piece.


Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces
#2060245 - 04/06/13 08:35 AM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5
alexpol Offline
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alexpol  Offline
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I was unable to understand all the basic things.I need some more details about it.


Spammer, now banned
#2063460 - 04/12/13 12:03 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 152
larryz Offline
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larryz  Offline
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sweden
I've completed five measures which brings it to cadence. Though it doesn't sound so original, I'm sticking with it, to have something to work on.


.........................................O................
+============================+=========O=================+
|.............O..............|.O...O.O.....O.............|
|===========O================|===O===========O===O=======|
|...O...O.O.....O............|.................O.........|
|=====O===========O==========|=====================O===O=|
|...................O........|.......................O...|
|=&===================O==O=O=|===========================|
|.......................O....|...........................|
+============================+===========================+



+=========================+===============+=============+
|...........O.............|...............|.............|
|=========O===============|===============|=============|
|...O.O.O.....O...........|.O.............|.............|
|===============O=========|===O===========|=============|
|.................O.......|.....O.........|.............|
|=O=================O===O=|=======O====O=O|=============|
|.....................O...|.........O.....|.O...........|
+=========================+===============+===O=========+
...............................................O........
...............................................==O=.=O==
...................................................O....





#2064071 - 04/13/13 02:58 PM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,224
Polyphonist Online content
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Polyphonist  Online Content
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Posts: 9,224
New York City
Why waste time writing out countless rows of equals signs and periods when you could just write the note names?


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2064287 - 04/14/13 12:44 AM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
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Schubertslieder Offline
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Schubertslieder  Offline
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Posts: 373
Michigan, USA
Hello larryz

Below are what I came up with regarding your new and interesting score.

1st measure;
CBCCDECBAGFGG

2nd measure;
EDEEFGEDCDBAB

3rd measure;
GCCCDECBAGFG

4th measure;
CBAGFGG

5th measure;
FEDCBC

Wish the best with your composition.


Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces
#2064291 - 04/14/13 12:52 AM Re: modal sound [Re: larryz]  
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Schubertslieder Offline
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Schubertslieder  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 373
Michigan, USA
Hello larryz

You mentioned the cadence and I think it does end well. On the next to the last measure, there are many dominant notes, and the last measure ends on a tonic. To me, this is a nice ending.


Charles Peck (American)--Metropolitan
Debussy--various pieces
Grieg--various pieces

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